Government Operations Committee on Oct. 31st, 2017

[Bill Casey, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

A minute and a half? Sure.

I have a specific question dealing with aboriginal business. The RCMP in Nova Scotia wants to relocate its communications centre. The Millbrook First Nation would like to attract the RCMP to its industrial area. They've done a good job in making the application.

What is the role of Public Works in a case where the RCMP are looking to relocate? I think they're in a Public Works building now; I assume it's Public Works. That building is now deemed unsuitable, and I agree with that decision too.

Millbrook has made an application. It seems to us in the community that it would be a great way to build a connection between the Government of Canada and first nations and also with the RCMP.

What role would Public Works have in that? Is there anything I can do to help?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Unfortunately, there are only 30 seconds left for you to answer.

[Arianne Reza]

It's a good thing I'm a fast talker.

I can't speak specifically to this particular acquisition. I can tell you that whenever we look at procurement, the first key piece we talk about is PSAB. We work with our client and ask what are the aboriginal and indigenous needs in the community that can be addressed. That's an ongoing dialogue and part of the discussion as we proceed with requiring goods and services.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to our five-minute round of questions.

Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Let me follow up on what Mr. Weir was talking about in terms of the fair wage policy. I will give you a bit of background. It was originally in the PSPC mandate letter. We brought it up with Minister Foote about a year and a half ago. Her comment was that it will apply to all purchases, not just construction but all purchases.

At a subsequent meeting, we asked where she was with studying this and were told that it was another department. No, we said, it's in your mandate letter, and we heard, “Oh, I don't know.” At another meeting we heard, okay, it's with economic development. I'd like to know. Where are we with the fair wage policy? Will it indeed apply to every single purchase as former Minister Foote stated it would, such as purchasing airline tickets, paper clips, paper, everything? Where are we in the process?

I know that the mandate letter for the workplace development minister says that the minister is to work with PSPC and the President of the Treasury Board “to implement a modern Fair Wages Policy”. The mandate is there. I know you're working on it.

I'd like to know how far it's going, and I'd like a very clear answer on what it will encompass, because the government is among the largest individual purchasers in the entire country, and a lot of SMEs and a lot of companies rely on business with the government. This is going to be a huge change for them.

I'd like a real clear answer. What's the scope going to be? How far along are we? When are we going to see information? What are the costs going to be? Surely for something this massive Treasury Board and PSPC are on board already and looking at what the added costs are going to be.

[Arianne Reza]

I hope to provide you with a robust response, but in fact, there will be either a written response or we can come back, because ESDC is the lead in terms of fleshing out what that fair policy looks like, so—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm just going to interrupt.

Very quickly, it says this right in the Treasury Board Secretariat policy: “if appropriate, the optimal balance of overall benefits to the Crown and the Canadian people”. Everyone's mandate talks a lot about providing value, etc. I don't accept: “Oh, it's economic development's, and they're looking at it.”

If PSPC is the purchaser; Treasury Board overlooks. I'm assuming you have to be involved in this. If you're not, you're scaring me very greatly, and not because it's Halloween.

[Arianne Reza]

I wouldn't want to scare you with my orange and black.

In fact, we are involved. In a sense, we are taking our cue from ESDC, which is looking at whether they are doing this through apprenticeship or are they doing it through whatever range of programs and training.... They are looking at fair wages. Once they have created that policy frame, we will be looking at how we manage our contracts.

In terms of fair wages, we right now have provincial legislation that we abide by when we are delivering procurement of goods and services in various jurisdictions. We have that as a baseline. Bringing fair wages into our contractual policy, making sure there are ethical.... If you look at the implications, they can be ethical in terms of apparel, no human trafficking.... There are policy statements and guidelines that have already been—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It wasn't regarding human trafficking. We were talking about purchasing goods and services, paper goods, airline tickets, etc. The fair wage policy could effectively bar a fair amount of suppliers. I'd like to know how far along we are. From what you're saying, it sounds like they've barely even started looking at it.

[Kathleen Owens]

I think we can say that the policy work is under way in looking at options. No decisions have been made yet.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So nowhere close...?

[Kathleen Owens]

I think we're going to come back to you with ESDC's timelines for this. They are the lead.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I would really appreciate that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You have about a minute.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

On the PSAB, just quickly, I think you mentioned that there were $112 million in contracts with aboriginal businesses. Do you know what proportion of indigenous business bidding is actually getting work? It seems to me that $112 million is very low.

How are you reaching out? Part of our study is on aboriginal business procurement. How are you reaching out to let them know that this work is available, apart from just putting it on Buyandsell?

[Desmond Gray]

I can speak a little to that.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Sorry, but can it be really short?

[Desmond Gray]

I'll be very quick.

We actually work with INAC and we've tried to coordinate our event planning and activities. Right now, we work with INAC and we target I think about 25 to 30 major events across the country.

In addition, my own organization, OSME, sets its own targets to engage indigenous and aboriginal communities right across Canada. We have six regional offices. Every regional office has a specific target that it must meet.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Would you provide us with the regional offices...?

[Desmond Gray]

Yes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I think a lot of us would probably like to reach out to see how we can get more involved.

[Desmond Gray]

Yes, absolutely. In fact, we have an aboriginal engagement strategy, which is led out of the Pacific office of OSME for the whole country.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Could you share that with us as well?

[Desmond Gray]

We can share that with you, absolutely.

[Arianne Reza]

They're co-located with the PSPC regional offices. OSME is part of PSPC.