Government Operations Committee on Oct. 31st, 2017

[Lorenzo Ieraci]

Yes, sir.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

Do you believe that the CITT, the next step up, is adequate and is providing service within an adequate timeline?

[Lorenzo Ieraci]

That's a difficult question for me to answer, because I'm not necessarily an expert on the CITT. Their mandate does differ from ours. The CITT's mandate, as I understand it—and they would be able to explain it better than I can—really focuses on whether procurements that were undertaken were undertaken in a manner that respected the trade agreements.

There are a few differences between us. They can look at the procurement process when it comes to the awarding of a contract, while we can only look at a contract once it has been awarded. Also, their timelines differ in terms of when people can file a complaint.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you.

This is for Ms. Reza, Ms. Owens, and Mr. Gray. I want to get to Bill C-344, the private member's bill regarding community benefit that passed just recently.

We asked previously if any study had been done by PSPC on the effects, the costs, and the process. Basically, we got blank stares. We asked the government, and again we got nothing back. I'm curious. Now that it's gone forward, have we looked at what it's going to do to the procurement process?

Mr. Ieraci, in his very well put together annual report, identified a lot of issues with procurement: problems with transparency, time, bureaucracy, and the paperwork required. Bill C-344 looks to add to this quite a bit. I'm curious to hear if we've looked at the problems that are going to occur, at the added costs or anything else.

[Arianne Reza]

Certainly from a PSPC perspective, we've been monitoring the bill in the sense of looking at the community inclusion benefits on the SMEs and seeing how we would actually map it and what additional costs it would bring in. We're also looking at best practices internationally, where they—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

What costs have you formulated that it's going to add? Or haven't you gotten that far yet?

[Arianne Reza]

We haven't gone that far to see what it would add to the procurement—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Do you know when we'll have an idea?

[Arianne Reza]

We don't have an immediate timeline in place. We're still looking at the considerations of what it would add. When I say “costs”, I'm looking at the resources for the SMEs to apply and how we would revise our RFPs and solicitations to include community benefits.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

There will be other costs, such as costs to taxpayers, as the SMEs need to have further compliance. This is not going to reduce costs. Have we started looking at what it's going to cost taxpayers?

[Arianne Reza]

From a PSPC perspective, we haven't broken down in detail the cost of—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Should we be doing that?

[Arianne Reza]

The first assessment is to see the progress of the bill and to look to Treasury Board and others to establish the framework in which we would look at community benefits.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Should we look to Treasury Board, then?

[Kathleen Owens]

Obviously what we do with any legislation is see if adjustments need to be made to policy once the legislation is passed. In addition to policy, sometimes there's additional guidance that we need to provide to departments. Again, that assessment hasn't been done yet. We'll be monitoring that with our colleagues.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Ieraci, you've been quite open in your annual report about some of the difficulties our SMEs face. A lot of that is around the paperwork, compliance, and poorly written RFPs. I'm looking at the vagueness of Bill C-344, and it looks like it will add to that. Do you have any thoughts as to how we can make sure the SMEs can deliver bids without running into some of the problems you've identified?

[Lorenzo Ieraci]

Thank you for the question. As I mentioned, the annual reports issued from my office identify the concerns raised by federal suppliers through our outreach initiatives, where we go out and speak to as many suppliers across Canada as we can.

There's no question that from a supplier perspective what we've heard is that some of them find the process for submitting bids a little complicated. My counterpart at TBS talked about all the rules that have to be followed. Those rules do impose a burden on some suppliers I've spoken with in terms of being able to submit proposals that will be deemed successful or that can qualify as per the requirements.

In my most recent annual report, one of the things I mentioned in my message is the fact that when it comes to simplifying federal procurement, which is something that we've heard about from suppliers across the country in a number of instances, it is something that we need to work towards collectively. We need to make sure that we're providing some clarity so that people understand exactly what they're signing up for.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's right. In one of the items you mention in the report, you say, “Poorly written solicitations can cause confusion for suppliers”, but in Bill C-344 we have a line that says the minister “may—not “will”—require bidders...to provide information on...community benefits”. It looks like we're adding confusion without the certainty.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We're going to have to cut it off there.

Mr. Weir, please, for seven minutes.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you very much for your testimony.

I'd like to compliment Ms. Reza on wearing orange; I encourage people to do that all year round, not just on Halloween. It's much appreciated.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I did want to ask about something the current government has promised since it came to office, which is a new fair wages policy for federal procurement. I'm wondering where the government is at on implementing that policy.

[Arianne Reza]

ESDC is examining the fair wages policy. We're working closely with them. Once a fair wage policy is established and set, contractual clauses in PSPC contracts and across government will be reflected in that direction and policy.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Can you give us a sense of when that policy might come into effect or what's being considered in its development?

[Arianne Reza]

Unfortunately, in this role the PSPC is supporting the lead department, ESDC, which is looking at the deliberations; it's currently being considered, and I don't have details on the timelines.