Evidence of meeting #107 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was million.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brian Pagan  Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Renée LaFontaine  Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Darryl Sprecher  Senior Director, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yaprak Baltacioglu  Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I'd prefer that, yes.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

It will be recorded. I'll turn it over to my clerk to administer. We're voting on Mr. McCauley's motion that the President of the Treasury Board appear before the committee by December 8.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

It's obvious, Mr. Chair, but I am here and he could ask the question.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

He should ask the question.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

The motion is as Mr. McCauley has presented it, and the vote will now take place and be recorded.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 2)

Thank you.

Now, colleagues—

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

I can speak to this, because I don't want Kelly to leave here mad.

12:50 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I'm not mad.

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

I can speak to the point. I'd like to speak to it.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Minister, if you have a couple of minutes, I'll certainly allow you that time. We do have to be out of here to allow another committee to come in.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

On the whistle-blowers act, the reality is that under the previous government, it ignored, for several years, the legislative requirement to review the act, and it didn't do anything with it.

I appreciate the question. Our government is committed to ensuring that whistle-blowers in government have the protection they deserve. That's for good government.

We appreciated the committee's report. There are useful recommendations to improve the regime in our public sector. We're taking concrete steps, including improving guidance, increasing awareness and training, and enhancing public reporting. In fact, last evening I had dinner with some public sector labour leaders, and we discussed this. One of the things I discussed was whistle-blower protection. I told them that I want to sit down with the unions to explore what we can do to strengthen the regime. That's something the previous government also didn't do a lot, sit down with the unions.

We're engaging also the Public Sector Integrity Commissioner. I want to sit down with him on this issue in the near future.

We're initiating meetings across government with heads of human resources to ensure that employees and managers are knowledgeable about their rights and responsibilities in terms of whistle-blower protection and that they have the proper training and tools. Our chief human resources officer is examining how to best enhance public reporting so that we're able to publish the data.

I want to tell you that this is an issue that is important to me. It's one I know the committee has worked hard on. I intend to sit down with the public sector unions to discuss further what we can achieve on this in terms of strengthening the protections.

You may not have won that vote, Mr. McCauley, but you got your wish. I appeared, and we had a chance to talk about this.

November 9th, 2017 / 12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I just want to respond to your comments.

I am disappointed. I think the public service is disappointed. You can say that you've consulted with the unions, but I think if you talk to our witnesses and everyone else, you'll hear that.

I want to quote from Mr. Friday, the Public Service Integrity Commissioner. He said, “I am disappointed that the Government response to the Committee's report”, tabled in May, “proposed no legislative changes”. As I mentioned, 25 of our 34 recommendations require legislative amendments. That's not going to be addressed by your response. Mr. Friday said, “I welcome and support”, yes, but also “I am disappointed that the opportunity was not taken to make formal legislative changes to improve the whistleblowing system at this time.”

I want to finish with a quote from one of our witnesses, David Yazbeck. He said:

The last thing I want to say, members of the committee, if I can be a little strong and almost emotional here, is that whistle-blowers are heroes. They risk their families, they risk their careers, and they risk financial stability in order to make the operation of government better and therefore improve the lives of Canadians.

This is not for whistle-blowers. This is for Canadians.

The system...doesn't work. It needs to be fixed. This committee has a golden opportunity to do that. I would urge you to listen to people like us and do that. This is not only better for whistle-blowers. This is also better for Canadians.

We've let these witnesses down and we've let whistle-blowers down, and I'm disappointed.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

On that note, we are adjourned.