Government Operations Committee on Dec. 12th, 2017

[Dr. Allan Riding]

I can't answer your question with a yes this or that. I can say we can learn from what other people are doing. Whether those methods would work in Canada is certainly up in the air. Right now, we're struggling with a lack of data that's so basic we don't actually know our starting point. So when we talk about a program that's going to encourage suppliers to be innovative, we have to measure that innovation today and we have to measure it at the end of the day to make sure the compliance is there. We are just not equipped with the data right now. We need to sit back and organize a really serious way of collecting the data that is going to answer those questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you.

Our final intervention will come from Mr. Weir, for three minutes.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Thank you.

Are there any lessons we can learn from provincial governments on how to include small enterprises in public procurement?

[Dr. Allan Riding]

I think we should learn from all of them, study all of them, and find out what the best practices are.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay, but would there be some specific best practices you could point to from the provincial level?

[Dr. Barbara Orser]

I think Newfoundland and Labrador was amongst the first to bring diversity procurement into its offshore oil extraction. I think Newfoundland and Labrador is actually leading the way. The City of Toronto has been mentioned. B.C. had an Olympic commitment for diversity. There were some lessons learned there. But the fact that I can name only three would suggest that they're hard to find.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay, fair enough.

One big area of federal procurement we haven't discussed is defence procurement. Do you have any thoughts on industrial and technological benefits on the national security exception for procurement?

[Dr. Barbara Orser]

I would think many of the points we have raised would apply to our military and defence, and it gets back to the comments about the oil sands. Here rests an opportunity, perhaps, for more proactive outreach. There is a women in defence small business community, but I wonder if they are well acquainted with the procurement process.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

What would you recommend in terms of engaging that community?

[Dr. Barbara Orser]

Meeting, talking, recognizing who their supplier base is, and their skills competencies in terms of delivering product, innovation, and the service process.... Yes, it would be more dialogue, and getting to know each other, but in a proactive way.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Is one of your main messages that the federal government should really be out there trying to engage small businesses and let them know about opportunities and processes?

[Dr. Barbara Orser]

I think that would be my key takeaway—in a proactive way across all sectors.

[Dr. Allan Riding]

I would add that I think we have mechanisms for doing that effectively, and particularly when we talk about engaging women more, because what we already have in some parts of the country are our organizations such as the Women's Enterprise Organizations of Canada, in the western provinces and in the Maritimes. There's nothing in Ontario that focuses on educating women.

I think these become a mechanism. These organizations provide both early-stage funding to women, but more importantly provide a great deal of education and encouragement and sometimes, where needed, discouragement about building their businesses. Those mechanisms exist. They're funded by the federal government. To work through those I think could be a very effective way of starting to build competency and capacity even more so among women business owners.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Professors, once again, thank you for your participation in our discussion today. Thank you for being here, particularly on a snowy winter day in Ottawa.

Should you have any additional information you think would benefit our committee as we continue with our study on procurement in the federal government, I would encourage you to submit all of your comments, recommendations, and suggestions to our clerk. We will be continuing this study for at least a few more meetings come the new year, so there is some time should you have any thoughts over the extended break we have, starting in mid-December until the end of January. You can get those suggestions directly to our clerk. It would be very helpful if you could do that. I would appreciate that.

Colleagues, we're going to suspend for just a couple of moments while we dismiss our witnesses, and then we'll go in camera for about 10 minutes' worth of committee business.

[Proceedings continue in camera]