Evidence of meeting #120 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.
A video is available from Parliament.
Noon
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Committee members, if you want to spend time with the minister, you had better sit down.
Continuing with our study of the supplementary estimates (C) and the interim estimates, we have our second panel with the Honourable Minister Scott Brison, President of the Treasury Board. We also have Madam Baltacioglu, Madam Renée LaFontaine, and Mr. Brian Pagan.
Welcome, Minister. I believe you have some opening remarks, which you will keep short, I hope.
Noon
Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
Noon
Kings—Hants Nova Scotia
Liberal
Noon
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
As committee members are aware, I'm very sensitive so I will heed that.
I'm delighted to be here with you today. I've said this before but I think it bears repeating. I have a lot of respect for the work that committees do. Having been a member of Parliament for almost 21 years, I've spent most of my time in opposition, in fact. I enjoyed and valued my work on committees, and I understand full well the importance of the work of committees.
I'm delighted to be here with Brian Pagan, Renée LaFontaine, and Yaprak Baltacioglu, the secretary of the Treasury Board.
If you will indulge me for a moment, this will be Yaprak's last appearance before a parliamentary committee, I believe. Sadly for me, and for Canadians, Yaprak is retiring after 30 years of public service, having served a lot of governments. Her story is of somebody who came here at the age of 22 from Turkey, who was educated here, raised children here, and chose to serve a Canada that she loves. She has made an immense difference in the lives of Canadians over that period of time. She has been an exceptional public servant, and I want to thank Yaprak, on behalf of all of us, for her work.
Noon
Some hon. members
Hear, hear!
February 15th, 2018 / 12:05 p.m.
Yaprak Baltacioglu Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Over the last hour, I know that our officials have been with you discussing the highlights of supplementary estimates (C) and the interim estimates 2018-19.
Madam Chair, with these supplementary estimates, the government is asking Parliament to approve funding for issues that are important to Canadians. This is why we are trying to obtain, as you have heard, $4 billion in additional expenditures for 48 organizations.
These include $177 million to support veterans and their families, $435.4 million in support of Canada's defence policy, $202.5 million towards international assistance, and $277.6 million for Canada's military contributions to international missions. We're seeking Parliament's approval to create more opportunities for indigenous peoples, attract talents, strengthen university research, build strong indigenous communities, and innovate to solve Canada's big challenges.
We're happy to take your questions on both supplementary estimates (C) and also the interim estimates for 2018-19.
I would like to briefly discuss our broader agenda to reform the estimates process and to improve its alignment with the budget.
As Mr. Pagan said, the main estimates will be brought down on April 16 at the latest, for the duration of this Parliament. I know that Mr. Pagan and Ms. Lafontaine are as excited as I am with the idea that this year's main estimates will reflect the budget, thanks to this change of date.
One consequence of that change is that we have tabled interim estimates. This is the first time that the government has provided Parliament with a document showing the specific amounts that we proposed in an interim supply bill, for each vote of each department with an appropriation. The purpose of the interim estimates and the interim supply is to provide the government with sufficient cash and authority to start the fiscal year, until we request the full authority for the full supply of the main estimates.
To better support this purpose, you will notice an important change in the way that voted authorities are presented in the proposed schedule to the appropriation bill. Now, we show both the amount of cash that the department requires for the first three months of the fiscal year and the total authority, which is the value of contracts, grants, and contribution agreements, for example, that they can commit against the vote for the year beginning on April 1.
If you had followed the progress of the second budget implementation act last fall, you'd recall that we saw an amendment to the Financial Administration Act to enable this change. This simple change to vote wording provides greater clarity for departments, which then work, and must work, within the authorities approved by Parliament.
This is another example of our commitment towards improving the clarity and transparency of the process of determining budgetary forecasts and authorities.
With this change, we are improving the clarity and transparency of the estimates and the supply process. As important as these interim estimates are, they're really just the teaser for the main event and that's the next budget and the main estimates.
As the Minister of Finance has announced, the next budget will be tabled on February 27, and by delaying the tabling of the main estimates, we will be able to include new spending measures, from the budget, in the main estimates, and to get those funds working for Canadians as soon as possible after they're announced in the budget. It really does make the estimates process more meaningful.
In the past, we would have the main estimates before the budget. We would debate the main estimates and then the budget would come along, rendering much of what we talked about in the main estimates irrelevant. I value your time as committee members, and I hope that this enables you to play an even greater role in terms of not just holding our government to account but future governments to account.
As Brian and Renée explained, we're continuing to work on the other pillars of estimates reform. There's the option of changing the nature of the vote to reflect the purpose, the why, rather than just the nature of the how, the expenditure. We're also committed to having the 2018-19 departmental plans tabled at the same time, or very soon after the main estimates.
That concludes my opening remarks. I'm looking forward to having a discussion. I always enjoy this committee.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you very much.
We'll start the first round, the seven-minute round, with Mr. Peterson.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. President, and to the officials for being here. We appreciate this component of our committee. It's a role that we all take seriously, and I think we can all agree that the new alignment will perhaps allow us to fulfill that function of our committee work a little more effectively.
The alignment, of course, is just one feature of the new process. I wonder if you can elaborate on other steps that are being taken to ensure that the process continues to be more transparent, more clear, and aligns departmental priorities with the budgetary process.
What other steps, behind just the alignment, are being taken to make this process more open and transparent?
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
One of the things I'd like to come back to the committee to discuss are the departmental results frameworks, which is a very different reportage of departments to Parliament. It is much more results-focused than ever before. In the past, reports were focused on outputs. We are trying to focus reporting on outcomes. In the past, reports were focused on processes. We want to focus on objectives and what we actually get done on behalf of people.
The indicators you will see in the departmental results framework first of all relate to objectives that we believe Canadians would share and understand. The old reporting was not one that I think was understandable or pertinent to citizens.
That's something where I'd like to come back sometime and have a more in-depth discussion, and go through and compare the old program architecture reports and the new departmental results framework so that you can see. We can do it in a couple of departments to show the difference. What it is doing is creating an alignment between the government ministers and the public service. In terms of a transparent reportage process to citizens, that ensures we're keeping our eye on the ball in terms of what we're trying to achieve.
I would like to come back and spend more time on that, and program-based reportage—the work we're doing with Transport, as an example—which provides a lot more detail than you would have had in the past.
I mean the objective here... I think the changing of the sequencing of the budget and the main estimates is an important step forward. It will take time to achieve the full results of that. You're dealing with the machinery of government in terms of Finance, Treasury Board, and departments. It is a significant change. I looked at the gold standard in terms of budget estimates process. I like the Australia model, where budget and estimates come out basically simultaneously. From an efficiency perspective and an accountability perspective, I think it's really good. We're moving in that direction, and I think that's positive.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you.
This may be a little more of a technical question, but there is also going to be a change in the accounting methods. There's still some work to do, even in the assessment by officials of the reconciliation tables introduced and the budget and estimates.
How far are we along that road? How big of an undertaking is that? Is that just a technical accounting change, or is there much work to do?
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
I did notice that when you had a technical question that was really tough, you looked at Brian, not me. But I do believe that the reconciliation tables we are including now, which help align cash and accrual accounting, the estimates and budget accounting, are really important in terms of parliamentarians' ability to understand what we're doing, and they make it clearer to people such that they can follow the money.
Brian.
12:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
As mentioned in our previous remarks, we've been working very closely with Finance over the last number of years on our shared agenda to make the numbers more understandable. For the last two years in our supplementary estimates in the spring, we've had that reconciliation table. This year, because we're tabling the main estimates after the budget, we are going to have that reconciliation in the main estimates. That's a terrific advancement.
We have continued this effort at reconciliation. In the supplementary estimates (C), there are a number of online annexes. There is an annex there that compares the budget to the estimates and provides that ongoing reconciliation. It's more than just accounting, as we've explained previously. The budget is comprehensive, so it reflects all expenses of government including tax expenditures like the Canada child benefit. We break out the totality of expenses and then account for that accounting difference, that difference between cash and accrual. It's actually quite small. It's about $6 billion.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I can assure you, Mr. President, I wasn't implying by just the way I was looking at you that you weren't capable of answering the question.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
We share an alma mater so I know you're a well-educated, young man.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I know there's the pilot program at Transport Canada. How's that going, and what lessons have we learned from the program?
12:15 p.m.
Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
It's ongoing. Through the first two years there have been no challenges at all with respect to Transport Canada's ability to allocate their grants and contributions to their recipients.
As the minister mentioned, we have a new results policy. You will be seeing a new frame for Transport Canada this year because they are aligning their grants and contributions votes according to the core responsibilities that I spoke of earlier. As we indicated, we've advanced the idea that we might want to build on this pilot and try this with other departments, but we welcome feedback and direction.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you very much.
We go now to Mr. McCauley for seven minutes.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Welcome back, Minister.
Yaprak, congratulations on your retirement. Thanks for everything you have done for our country. I know that one year with the minister is like seven in the real world.
12:15 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!