Government Operations Committee on April 24th, 2018

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Do these subcontracts self-load?

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

Yes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So it's not done through your office. They have a portal, and they just load themselves?

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

Absolutely. This is Contracts Finder. We're teaching them how to do it. We're also asking the departments who are developing the prime contracts in the first instance to work with the prime in advertising the subcontracting opportunities.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Do you see yourself going toward not a mandated system but a system where you're encouraging it?

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

Definitely. We think there is an opportunity there. It's not what every SME wants, but there is plenty of room for SMEs to develop in the supply chain. That's part of a healthy marketplace, in our view.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It seems like a great idea. Our system is that if the SME wants it, they can find out who won the major contract, but they have to chase it down, as opposed to the contractor posting the subs on the site.

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

Yes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

How much of the business that you post gets bid on by EU countries?

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

Oh, gosh. I think—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Just ballpark-ish, if you have that.

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

I'm sorry?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

In general terms, do you have any idea of how much?

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

I know it for a couple of industries. There was concern about the steel industry a couple of years ago. I believe it was a very small percentage. It may even have been a kind of naught-point-whatever percentage. It's not a great deal. We see them bidding in. Obviously our opportunities must be open. We're part of the EU.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I think I'm out of time.

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Blaikie, you have seven minutes, please.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

As you moved towards simplifying your procurement process and setting up this system, were there surprises for you? What were some of the challenges you encountered that you hadn't anticipated?

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

I think the hardest thing has been that this is a change program. Ultimately we're trying to change thousands of decisions being made across any given year in departments. My relatively small team needs to reach out to the people taking those decisions—for each decision, there may be a group of several people taking that decision—and influence them. We're operating at a distance.

My feeling is that it's getting that message out there, and combining both carrots and sticks to make sure people change their mindsets. Similarly, it's ensuring that with the phrase we're using, “government is open for business”, SMEs understand we really are changing our ways, becoming less bureaucratic and easier to do business with. That is also sometimes challenging.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

What advice would you give to a government that might be looking at trying to implement something like this in its own sphere, to be more successful—not that it hasn't been successful—and to reduce the kinds of lumps and bumps that you sometimes get in transition? What are things that a government that's new to this could be doing as part of its implementation?

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

I think the mystery shopper service has been very powerful. May I say one thing about the mystery shopper? It is a very confusing name. If anyone of you is familiar with mystery shopping as a thing, it's not like that. We ask businesses of any size, but they are quite often small businesses, to come to us when they have a problem with public procurement, and then the team investigates. We don't have powers to turn that around and say, “You awarded this procurement to this guy, and actually you should have awarded it to these people”, but we learn lessons. We then have a sense of what's not working. That has enabled us to pinpoint the things that we really need to change, so I would say that's very powerful.

I think also that the target has helped to focus minds. Breaking the target down, putting a sub-target on each department, and requiring them to aim to meet that has been powerful.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Within your program, encouraging the participation of SMEs within the supply chain, have there been any efforts to target particular kinds of SMEs, whether they're owned by women or visible minorities? Is there an aspect like that at all to your program?

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

Not really. Obviously, we wouldn't want to shut out minority-owned businesses or businesses owned by women at all. We have considered it from time to time, but the focus has been very much on just the SMEs. We do reach out, for example, to trades organizations focused on, particularly, minority-owned businesses.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Do you think your approach would be adaptable to that kind of targeting as well? If so, what kinds of adjustments do you think you would need to make if you were interested in trying to pursue those kinds of targets within the program? Do you think it would be more appropriate to have some other program alongside this one? How would you see that working in your framework?

[Dr. Cass Chideock]

I am speculating now, but I think the key question for me would be what are the barriers? What we have done has been very much focused on the specific barriers that we think SMEs face. I suspect the barriers that, say, BAME-owned businesses or women-owned businesses face are different. They are more to do with unconscious bias, perhaps. That may manifest in, perhaps, mini-competitions, in which you are having presentations, say, from the businesses.

I don't know; I'm not sure, in all honesty. Certainly, speaking for myself, I try to run an evidence-based approach in making policy and in making changes, so I would want to investigate what the barriers were in the first place.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Do you think your mystery shopping model might play a role in something like that? I'm thinking in terms of having those kinds of businesses approach your team and say, “Hey, look, we think this is the reason we can't get through. Can you follow up or investigate?”