Evidence of meeting #132 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was phoenix.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Les Linklater  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Marty Muldoon  Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Administration Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Michael Vandergrift  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Marie Lemay  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Ron Parker  President, Shared Services Canada

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

I'd like to move to delay the votes to a day before June 10, 2018. We're dealing with a new estimates process here. We asked some questions today, both the Conservatives and I, that we didn't really get answers to.

I know that Daniel Blaikie, who is our critic, has asked for additional information on the new process in question period, in a take-note debate, and in an emergency debate, so there is still plenty of time for the committee to deal with these estimates.

We don't have a lot of our regular members here today, so my motion is simply that we delay the vote to a day before June 10, which is the last day.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

For the benefit of the committee, the motion is in order, because it deals with the subject at hand.

Mr. McCauley.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I'd like to speak on it first, please. This is a very important issue. I'd hate to be calling the question on $7 billion of spending without any parliamentary oversight.

We've heard from many experts. We've heard from Kevin Page, the previous parliamentary budget officer, who has called it out as lacking transparency and taking away oversight from Parliament and the real reason we're here.

Mr. Garrison also brought up some very good points, and that we have a lot of time.

We've heard from the present Parliamentary Budget Officer, who actually put out a report on the issue of whether we're willing to sacrifice oversight for the expediency of, basically, a false claim of aligning the estimates. Let's be honest, we're not actually aligning when we don't have the answers to so many questions.

We heard at this very committee from the Privy Council Office about their spending, whether they'd even looked at it yet, and their comment that they hadn't developed the plan; they were simply told to put it in. It's difficult to expect us to do our job as parliamentarians, to justify spending and see what the results are, when in fact the departments that are asking for the money have stated that, “Well, we're putting the money in, and you need to ask the Treasury Board what that money is for,” even though in this case it was $1 million for the Privy Council Office.

We heard earlier today that there is detail in the budget. For example, “simpler and better procurement, $52 million”. The quote was, “there is more detail”. It says $52 million for simpler and better procurement, but there are no details that that is on providing, as we've heard, set-asides for first nations.

We talked earlier today about some of the first nations procurement. We've heard repeatedly, from witness after witness representing first nations indigenous groups, that the way the government does procurement is very flawed, and that we need to pursue other avenues from the way the government is doing it.

I'd hate to think that the government—

Sorry?

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

I'm letting the witnesses leave, because you're going to talk out the clock, as far as I can tell.

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

You guys don't want to hear this? I'll never get a chance to speak in front of so many people again.

I'm not finished.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

No, and you have 20 seconds.

Sorry.

May 10th, 2018 / 12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I was just talking about the lack of detail, saying that $52 million is going to go to create a program that does not benefit first nations. We've heard certain members praise this current system that the first nations have repeatedly said is broken.

Are we going to have this money spent willy-nilly, without hearing the effects on women in small businesses? We've just heard that Bill C-344,which hasn't been studied by the government, is going to add more red tape to procurement for small businesses, which will affect women. If the time is up, I'm happy to...but we've heard specifically from women witnesses that they're generally smaller businesses, and added paperwork disproportionately hurts women in small businesses.

We haven't addressed how it will be, yet we're expected to spend $52 million without even asking the government how they're going to spend that.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Mr. McCauley, I have to ask the committee's permission, because your time is up.

Do you want to sit through and listen to this?

1 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I have hundreds of pages more on this. There are a hundred items.

1 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.