Evidence of meeting #155 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was departments.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Carolyne Blain  Director General, Strategic Policy Sector, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Nick Xenos  Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat
David Schwartz  Director General, Commercial and Alternative Acquisitions Management Sector, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Gérard Deltell  Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC
Jean Yip  Scarborough—Agincourt, Lib.
Sarah Petrevan  Senior Policy Advisor, Clean Energy Canada
Denis Leclerc  Chairman of the Board and President and Chief Executive Officer, Écotech Québec, CanadaCleantech Alliance
Jean-François Béland  Administrator and Vice-President, Corporate Affairs and Strategy, General Fusion, CanadaCleantech Alliance

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Colleagues, we have quorum, so I'll convene the meeting now. If we could have all committee members please take their seats, I would appreciate that.

We will continue our study of the greening of government. We have with us representatives from both the Department of Public Works and Government Services as well as representatives from the Treasury Board Secretariat.

Welcome to you all.

Madam Blain, I understand you have an opening statement. Would you care to introduce your colleagues. The floor is yours.

3:30 p.m.

Carolyne Blain Director General, Strategic Policy Sector, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

My name is Carolyne Blain and I am the Director General of the Strategic Policy Sector in the Acquisitions Program at Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC.

Accompanying me today is my colleague David Schwartz, Director General of the Commercial and Alternative Acquisitions Management Sector, also of the Acquisitions Program at PSPC. Also joining me are colleagues from the Treasury Board Secretariat, Nick Xenos and Jessica Sultan, whom you met at the last meeting on this study.

Thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to appear and speak about the greening government strategy. I am happy to share with you the important work we are undertaking at Public Services and Procurement Canada regarding green procurement.

If we, as a country, government, and people are serious about moving towards a greener future, procurement is a lever toward advancing and achieving sustainability goals and driving positive change in the supply chain and the Canadian economy. To fulfill this goal, we have made, and will continue to make, fundamental changes to the goods and services we use and the way in which we procure them.

As the largest public buyer in Canada, PSPC is in a unique position to both influence and have a direct impact on the range of environmentally preferable products and services that are sought, as well as what is offered by industry.

To maximize the environmental benefits in procurement, we have given priority to shared and national procurement instruments to optimize the impact of sourcing decisions. This allows various government departments, including federal, provincial and territorial governments, to access environmentally preferable goods and services. By collaborating with the provinces and territories, we increase our influence well beyond the federal public procurement. Additionally, environmental considerations have been included in procurement instruments for more than 35 commodity groupings.

Implementing environmental considerations into procurement requires an understanding of the complete life cycle of purchased goods or services, from extraction of material to disposal. This knowledge allows us to integrate green criteria where they will have the greatest impact. For example, our national procurement instruments for light-duty passenger vehicles take into consideration the fuel consumption and CO2 emissions in the evaluation. This allows the government to source vehicles that will deliver optimum environmental benefits over the useful life of the vehicle while responding to the operational requirements of the client department.

Another example of how PSPC is looking to promote environmental stewardship is by ensuring that items on mandatory standing offers are green, as is the case in our standing offer for office paper, which requires that the paper supplied contain recycled content. We're continuing to innovate. For example, PSPC has added agricultural waste fibre paper to the standing offer, which is essentially tree-free paper. Additionally, only paper manufactured in conditions that meet or exceed requirements based on recognized and certified standards is available through the standing offer. This means that the paper provided comes from mills that have demonstrated they have reduced their impact on the environment.

We are also focusing our efforts on reducing the government's environmental footprint as it relates to the emission of greenhouse gases from the heating and cooling of federal facilities. In January 2017, PSPC awarded a $131-million contract for the purchase of clean energy for the Department of National Defence and Environment and Climate Change Canada in Alberta. With this contract, 90% of the Department of National Defence's energy requirement in that province will come from clean energy sources.

Engaging stakeholders and building on business opportunities is an important part of PSPC's business model. Supplier engagement and mobilization play a key role in meeting our green procurement objectives. One example is the recent consultations with suppliers of office supplies to better understand the range and availability of environmentally preferable solutions with particular emphasis on reducing plastics and greenhouse gas emissions.

This engagement with the industry will contribute to a review of over 4,800 high volume items to identify products that meet specific environmental criteria for the 2019 edition of the standing offer.

PSPC also engages with external stakeholders such as the Espace québécois de concertation sur les pratiques d'approvisionnement responsable. This organization helps PSPC accelerate green procurement implementation by working collectively with other organizations on similar challenges and creating science-based-evidence tools for procurement.

As you are aware, the G7 Summit was held in Charlevoix in June 2018. As there was a strong appetite to make the G7 Summit an eco-responsible event, it became essential to apply the principles of green procurement to the many purchases required to host the event. Approaches were crafted to efficiently and quickly implement environmental considerations into the development of procurement requirements and evaluation approaches. This included an innovative bid evaluation methodology for contracts for accommodation, transportation and food services in order to give preference to environmental products and services.

The process for this summit made a difference for several elements, including the responsible management of waste materials and the limited use of plastics. These actions helped ensure that the summit achieved a level 3 certification of the eco-responsible event management standard of the Conseil québécois des événements écoresponsables. This generated positive reactions and incentivized industry to adapt to more sustainable waste management practices.

The G7 provided PSPC with lessons learned and new approaches such as reducing single-use plastics, using composting to offset greenhouse gas emissions, giving incentives to supply environmental products. These lessons learned are now being considered for projects and will have positive effects on the implementation of green procurement across PSPC in the future.

PSPC also continues to optimize internal processes to better environmental outcomes such as adopting electronic bid submission, increasing use of electronic signatures, electronic archiving and the new electronic procurement solution, which was announced in budget 2018.

Green procurement is not just about the bottom line of using fewer products and services. It includes socio-economic benefits and long-term effects on the health of our environment, beyond the immediate measurable reductions in energy costs, water usage and GHG emissions. Changing purchasing behaviours at PSPC by incorporating the life cycle of products and services will have a positive impact at each phase of acquisition. How we plan, purchase, use and maintain and ultimately dispose of our purchases will also have a wider influence on suppliers, manufacturers and Canadians. What we do will set the standard and influence change on a broader scale. We need to move away from looking at the upfront cost of an item and instead consider the goods or service in the circular economy that focuses on keeping goods, including plastics, in the economy and out of landfills and the environment, providing long-term benefits and best value to Canadians and the community.

We'll continue to work with our colleagues at Treasury Board Secretariat's centre for greening government to advance green procurement practices. PSPC is committed to working in collaboration with other government departments, leading the implementation of the greening government strategy to effectively contribute to low-carbon environmentally responsible growth.

Thank you very much for your time.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you very much for your comments.

We will now go into our seven-minute round of questioning, beginning with Madam Mendès.

You have seven minutes, please.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, all, for being here.

I arrived a few minutes late but I did understand a lot of what you were saying about the great progress that has been made at PSPC in procurement and implementation of policies.

Treasury Board, from your side, what has been the overall policy for government in its greening measures and actions? How do you expect to attain 100% green sources for electricity in all government buildings by 2025? I would like to know a little more about this, if possible.

3:35 p.m.

Nick Xenos Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat

Those are good questions. On the Treasury Board side, there are a couple of things.

On procurement and the policy on green procurement, we lead the policy direction so departments like PSPC are the key implementers. We set policy direction and PSPC implements. That's the easy way to explain it.

Essentially, the procurement policy and the policy on green procurement are the two things housed at the Treasury Board. Treasury Board owns them.

We update. We've refreshed the policy on green procurement, and we've obviously passed the government greening strategy. We have those two vehicles. The greening government strategy has a procurement section that is reflected in the policy on green procurement. We also convene folks across departments to discuss procurement issues and provide training and support to procurement officials across the government.

The greening government strategy has set out various outcomes in different key areas of procurement, such as, real property, fleet and electricity, so we can drive toward those outcomes. There is a commitment to buy 100% clean electricity by 2025.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

Do you mean throughout Canada?

3:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat

Nick Xenos

Throughout Canada, yes, for our federal government operations. I should be specific there.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

Of course.

3:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat

Nick Xenos

Already 80% of our electricity created is low carbon, so we're looking at the delta, the 20% or so that isn't, in jurisdictions that have higher carbon electricity grids.

However, it's a fast-developing area. For example, Carolyne mentioned that in Alberta, we bought renewable electricity in the marketplace. Alberta is a deregulated market. So now in Alberta we are buying renewable electricity.

I should state as well that our approach is really to go jurisdiction by jurisdiction. The power we use in one jurisdiction is where we would buy.... The aim is to buy renewable in that jurisdiction.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

I imagine in Quebec it's 100%.

3:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat

Nick Xenos

Exactly. Quebec is already essentially zero carbon electricity, so it's already accomplished. Places like Manitoba, B.C. and Quebec already have very low carbon electricity, so really the focus is on the other jurisdictions.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

How is that going in Ontario?

3:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat

Nick Xenos

The first priority was Alberta. The next one will be Nova Scotia, Ontario and New Brunswick. We're now organizing departments to define our requirements in each of those. We've done Alberta, so now we're going to go to the other jurisdictions—what are our requirements, our electricity needs in those departments—and then organize our RFP, or an RFI first, but likely just an RFI/RFP, go to the market and buy electricity, or we will work with the utility provider in that jurisdiction.

Every jurisdiction is different. The first thing is to understand requirements, go across departments and see how much we need, how much we can buy, and what the delta is so we don't always need to buy 100%, and then work with the partners—the province, the utilities and the industry in that jurisdiction—and define our strategy to go to market. Then we go and buy.

We're looking at 2025. We want to roll it out over the next year or two, so there's a few years for people to actually provide the electricity.

There are different ways you can do it. You can provide electricity on site on federal lands, if we have a lot of land. You can do a power purchase agreement where you buy it off—

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

—a utility—

3:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat

Nick Xenos

—someone who provides it to the grid in the equivalent amount that you.... There are various ways. There are renewable energy credits as well. There are various instruments to go to market...

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

Would wind energy be included in that grid?

3:40 p.m.

Executive Director, Centre for Greening Government, Treasury Board Secretariat

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

Okay, thank you.

Ms. Blain, the measures taken in view of the G7 are extraordinary and provide a good example to other departments.

Do you sincerely believe that it is relatively feasible, over the short or the medium term, to encourage other departments to follow what you started in procurement at the G7?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

If you could provide an answer in about a minute, I would appreciate it, Madam Blain.

3:40 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy Sector, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Carolyne Blain

Will do.

I think that is entirely feasible. The important thing is to work with our client departments to find out what their needs and requirements are. That enables us to determine with them, and with industry, what is feasible and what is available on the market to implement this approach across our operations.

Those are best practices that can be applied in other circumstances.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

That helps make departments aware of the right suppliers. I assume you could potentially have a list of suppliers who meet the criteria.

3:40 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy Sector, Acquisitions Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Carolyne Blain

Yes, of course.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Alexandra Mendes Liberal Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC

That's good.

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you very much.

Mr. McCauley, you have seven minutes.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Welcome, and to some of you, welcome back.

I want to follow up on your comment about the G7. When we were here last time we discussed the purchase of the cars. I realize it wasn't the PSPC that bought the cars, but how do we ensure, moving forward, that we're actually working toward greening, so that we don't have departments going off on their own—not violating government policy, but going off in the wrong direction, as they did buying the gas cars?

This goes back to the conversation we had at the last meeting. I read through the departmental plans. There doesn't seem to be any one in charge, so to speak. I've just done some more reading, and now I realize that Natural Resources Canada is supposed to be partnering with TBS on greening government. That didn't come up at all in the last meeting. I look at their departmental plan, and see they have nothing about greening government, apart from the number of times stakeholders acknowledge using NRCan products in making decisions.

We hear all this great rhetoric, and we are doing some stuff, but a lot of things are slipping through the cracks, and there doesn't really seem to be anyone setting proper goals and in charge to make sure we're not buying cars or ensure that we're actually doing proper green procurement, etc.

I'll start with the cars. How do we go forward and not have a repeat of that?