Government Operations Committee on Nov. 27th, 2018

[Sarah Petrevan]

It depends on what aspects you want to talk about. In terms of getting small business innovation procurement, the United States has been doing extremely well at this since the 1970s.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Greening procurement government policies....

[Sarah Petrevan]

There are lots of different aspects of greening government procurement policies.

I would encourage Canada to look at the SBIR program in the United States, which we have done a bit through the innovative solutions Canada program, but there's cause to go further.

I would specifically look to the United Kingdom's Commissioning Academy as to how they have retrained their procurement officials to look at modern approaches to procurement, including outcomes-based procurement. This would be a radical shift for Canada, but any country that has done this well has moved towards outcomes-based procurement.

I would encourage Canada to look at Norway as an example in how they've leveraged outcomes-based procurement for Canadian technology. Certainly, as both Denis Leclerc and I have mentioned a number of times, Finland is a leading jurisdiction to look at. Even—

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

On the question of policy, we have developed a greening policy. How close are we with any of those you mentioned as far as comparison is concerned?

[Sarah Petrevan]

Although we have laid out a greening government strategy, we're actually fairly early on in its implementation. As you know, when it comes to policy, the devil is always in the details. On the face of it, we're doing extremely well. Providing that we can get the implementation going, the implementation correct, and create some change in the system, we will be in great shape.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Leclerc, you recommended three different points.

One of them was the implementation of a quota. I'm trying to get a better understanding of what you meant by the implementation of a quota. Can you expand on that, please?

[Denis Leclerc]

I'm sorry, I'm going to come back to Finland.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Okay.

[Denis Leclerc]

Finland requires that 1% of all annual purchases of goods and services be directed to Finnish clean technology.

That's the type of quota. We have quotas in Canada when we're building—

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

—a bridge?

[Denis Leclerc]

Public buildings. We need to put des oeuvres d'art. Help me with my English.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Masterpieces.

[Denis Leclerc]

It's a percentage of the building cost. We have the same thing in Quebec. One per cent of the construction cost is allocated to a work of art. Why can't 1% of infrastructure costs be used to demonstrate Canadian technology? Entrepreneurs will tell you that clean technology is also a work of art. How can we reach a similar quota that would demonstrate Canada's expertise?

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

On April 2017, I understand, your organization was invited by the centre for greening government to be part of a round table.

[Denis Leclerc]

Yes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Can you expand on that and explain to us what came out of that round table?

[Denis Leclerc]

First of all, it was very interesting. That's where I met Nick Xenos for the first time. The goal of the roundtable was to determine how to speed up green procurement for a government, and more importantly, how to do so simply and effectively.

Yesterday, I explained to senior officials that I was coming to meet with you today. One of them told me that I absolutely had to inform you that procurement for the government is extremely complicated. There should be a fast track or an accelerated process to obtain technology that would help us address our priorities and objectives, including the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions or clean water.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. McCauley, you have five minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Ms. Petrevan, just to set the record straight, if you're not in Richmond Hill, where are you, so Mr. Jowhari knows?

[Sarah Petrevan]

Physically right now I'm in Richmond Hill, but I live in the blossoming metropolis of Brooklin, Ontario—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Fantastic.

[Sarah Petrevan]

—in the riding, I believe, of Whitby.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

You mentioned the U.S. with procurement practices. We were doing a procurement study on small businesses, and they are light years ahead of us on a lot of issues.

Can you expand a bit about the comment on what they are doing? You said they have been doing that since the 1970s.

[Sarah Petrevan]

The United States has a program called the small business innovative research program. The program does a whole bunch of different things for SMEs. Yes, it does have some what they call a small-business set-aside, but they also do set-asides for veteran-owned businesses, women-owned businesses and businesses owned by people with disabilities.

What they do is set aside certain small portions of their government procurement. For example, 20% of government procurement through the SBIR program is going to support these particular groups, so they're going to ensure that they procure 20% of their goods and services from small businesses.

That has allowed small businesses to participate in government contracts, and it brings in a healthy amount of innovation at a very cost-competitive rate. There have been a number of studies based on the program that have shown how successful it has been in encouraging a culture of innovation using procurement through the U.S. government.

There are a number of different U.S. government departments you could look at, particularly with environmental performance. The U.S. Department of Defense is miles, light years ahead of—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I understand that.

I was meeting with some of them recently. They were telling me that these set-asides are voluntary. They meet them because of the fear of being called out, whereas we actually have forced set-asides that are completely ignored by our departments.