Evidence of meeting #158 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
I think there was a request for $60 million or so for that department, and almost $40 million is for the BCIP.
What is that money going to be used for?
4:20 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for your question.
The money will be used to fund BCIP projects. BCIP is a really successful program in which innovators submit ideas and they are tested by the National Research Council to determine whether they are truly innovative. About one third or so are deemed to be innovative.
The program links up these innovations with departments to test them and do trials. In essence, these companies with innovations get their first customer. Their first customer, being a government department, gives them both the benefit of having their product in use and also the benefit of being able to say that they have a customer in the Government of Canada, to aid further commercialization and marketing of their product.
These funds, requested as part of the supplementary estimates, are to fund those BCIP projects. They will eventually be moved over to ISED next year and will fund the program as part of the Innovation Canada suite of programs.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
Mr. Deltell, you have the floor for five minutes.
December 6th, 2018 / 4:20 p.m.
Gérard Deltell Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, Minister, gentlemen, ladies and colleagues.
Mr. Chair, before I start asking my questions, I must say that it seems a little surprising, if not unfortunate, that the government members declined the minister's openness to address very relevant questions about the Department of National Defence and all related expenditures. The government members refused the debate and that's unfortunate.
Madam Minister, I would like to talk to you about the issue at the heart of the northern defence strategy, the construction of the icebreaker Diefenbaker. As you know, it is a huge project worth more than $1 billion. When it was announced in February 2013, it was supposed to cost $720 million and the launch was scheduled for 2021. Now, the probable cost is $1.4 billion and the launch could take place in 2023. Within a few years, the price has doubled and the delivery date has been extended.
I would like to know where we stand. Have we started cutting steel to build the Diefenbaker? Otherwise, when will the first cut take place?
4:20 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
Michael, would you like to comment?
4:20 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The Diefenbaker is part of the program of work at Vancouver Shipyards. We're working with the shipyard on the program of work right now.
The schedule that you've identified remains the schedule at present. There are projects that need to be completed, though, in advance of the Diefenbaker, under the current schedule as laid out. The project, then, remains as you describe.
4:20 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I believe that's the date. We can verify and come back to you with the exact date.
4:20 p.m.
Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC
Well, Mr. Chair, we're talking about something very important now.
Do you think it would be a good idea—because there is some rumour about that project—that it be done somewhere else, in another shipyard? What do you think of that?
4:20 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I don't think I should be speculating about that. The project right now is part of the umbrella agreement with Vancouver Shipyards under the national shipbuilding strategy.
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Acquisitions Program, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Let me add that the premise for the national shipbuilding strategy was to give the shipyards involved in large ship construction a program of work over several decades, so that they could actually make the investments, become world-class, and then deliver ships under it.
Part of the umbrella agreement with Vancouver Shipyards includes this program and gives some returns on investment for the efficiencies that they have to bring into the yard.
4:20 p.m.
Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC
When you talk about some returns, the word “some” is weak, Mr. Fillion. We are talking about doubling the bill and postponing the delivery date. Not a piece of steel has yet been cut to start this project. Now you are telling us that everything is fine and that you are in talks with people.
I'm asking you again. Do you think we can continue this program as planned? Should we not consider pursuing it elsewhere?
4:20 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Acquisitions Program, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The NSS program is constantly.... I would say that this is the kind of conversation we have every day about how we deliver the ships that are part of the program.
I think it's fair to say that in the last eight years, since the program was announced and the contracts were awarded, many lessons have been learned concerning the optimism about scheduling and costing that we are correcting as we go along. It's also fair to say that we've put a lot of risks behind us as the shipyards have reinvested and have brought in new workforce. They've also put new equipment in their yard and are now building ships.
Going forward, I would have to say to you that, as we are updating our schedules and our cost estimates, those lessons learned and that experience are helping immensely. Yes, there was some optimism in the original estimates for all the programs that are being delivered under the national shipbuilding strategy.
4:25 p.m.
Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC
Now my question is directly for the minister.
What do you think of that project? The budget has doubled, going from $720 million to $1.4 billion. It was supposed to finish in 2021, and now we're talking about 2023. What do you think of that?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
I wish that more accurate costing and scheduling had been done initially, when the NSS was put in place years ago, but as was said, we are constantly updating and learning from the optimism of early estimates.
4:25 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
I'm glad that we now have more accurate numbers and timelines.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you.
Minister, before I go to our next intervention, which will be from Monsieur Drouin, you had indicated that you could be with us for an hour. If we wanted to complete a full round of questions from committee members, we would have approximately eight minutes left—five minutes for Monsieur Drouin and three minutes for Mr. Blaikie. Would you be able to stay for that additional time?
4:25 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
Yes, I would.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
Monsieur Drouin, you have five minutes, please.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I would like to remind the members of the committee that we did not vote against the motion; we simply voted to adjourn the debate, just because we were taken by surprise. Normally, there is a spirit of co-operation within the committee. We will therefore consider the motion and we will have the opportunity to check whether it is satisfactory.
Thank you very much to all the witnesses who are here today.
Madam Minister, I have to ask you some questions about the Phoenix pay system. I know that you are requesting, through supplementary estimates (A), $13.6 million to stabilize the Phoenix pay system.
I'm concerned about the figure of $1.8 million to fund increased support services to employees with pay issues.
Did the employees use that money? Are requests to use those funds made by employees? I imagine there were issues.
4:25 p.m.
Minister of Public Services and Procurement and Accessibility
No. In budget 2018, we announced $25 million to support departments in addressing their Phoenix issues. The $1.8 million is PSPC's share of that $25 million.
Am I correct?
4:25 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That is correct.
I'll just note that the Treasury Board Secretariat does have a claims office, which has been set up to help employees who have suffered out-of-pocket expenditures as a result of Phoenix to deal with those hardships.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Okay. So the department is responsible for paying the amount of those claims, even though the claims office is located at the Treasury Board Secretariat.