Evidence of meeting #168 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transition.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
We'll now go to our five-minute interventions.
Mr. Deltell, go ahead for five minutes, please.
April 10th, 2019 / 5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ladies, welcome to your House of Commons.
Your French is more than excellent. Earlier, you rightly denounced the fact that military members do not have access to second-language training courses, be it for English or French. That does not apply to you, as you have a great grasp of both languages. I congratulate you and thank you for that. Unfortunately, you will miss the invitation I wanted to extend to you to come to Valcartier, which is not far from my riding, where 99.9% of people have French as their mother tongue, of course.
The comments you exchanged with my colleague Ms. Laverdière are very interesting. If there is something we should learn from your testimony, that would be it. Military members should be prepared six months, one year or two years before they leave the armed forces by being provided with information. You have already identified a few potential topics of training—for example, how to manage a personal budget, a mortgage, an account or how to write cheques, how to find a family doctor and get involved in neighbourhood life. In short, it's about returning to civilian life.
We could argue that these things should be taught in high school, but that's another issue. We are at the federal level, and what happens in schools does not concern us. Sometimes the temptation is strong, but we won't play armchair quarterbacks in this area.
Earlier, you said something that intrigued me. When the rank of major is reached, people can have access to an intensive course for French or English. Do officers have access to training before they leave the military?
5:10 p.m.
Nurse Practitioner Captain (Retired), As an Individual
The situation was the same for a soldier or a corporal. There wasn't really a process in place. A lot of pressure was being placed on military members who were given a checklist and it was insisted that it be completed by a specific date. No one helped us.
I had a surgical procedure on my hip and am still taking medication, opioids. I had to carry my equipment myself from the basement to the main floor of my house, put it in my car and take it out of my car at the supply site.
There's not really anything in place. A lot of onus is put on the member. Don't get me wrong. I think the member has to take some ownership but some of these people are so injured, physically or psychologically, they can't manage that.
In my case, I had surgery on my hip. I was on prescribed medication and it was appropriately prescribed, but essentially, especially with opioids, we all know you have to be very careful with them. I was essentially titrated down and just thrown out. Luckily, my family doctor had never taken me off the roster in 15 years so when I got to my family doctor, she said, “What did they do?” She's trying to put the pieces back together, and luckily, now I'm in a much better place both physically and psychologically than when I released.
The other thing I want to highlight with a medical release is it's a blow to someone's ego. It is hard. The way you're trained in the military is you never show weakness. You push through pain. When you're medically released, you're treated differently both by your peers and your chain of command. In my case, like many other people, out of sight, out of mind. That's a failure of the leadership at all levels in the military.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Do you think it would be better to ask civilians instead of military people to teach you how to live in the civilian life, or would you prefer to have instructions from military people, those who have left the military and know what you have to live through? They know exactly how your life is because they were one of you before.
What kind of teacher would you like to have?
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
To me, coming out of the military, it's a combined approach. The JPSU, the joint personnel support unit, which is set up to help transition you out of the Canadian Forces, generally speaking is a cushy post in the military.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
5:15 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
Normally, the ranking is very high.
It's usually warrant officers who are in charge and it's usually corporals coming through. The answer to every question is “yes, sir” or “no, sir” when you're talking to a warrant officer. If you're talking about mortgages or family finances, you don't ever tell the warrant officer any of that.
A combination approach would be the best because you want someone who was there. Just like in the OSI, operational stress injury, rehab that they do through OSISS, it's colleagues; it's people who are trained as peer supporters.
The same approach would work. However, you need civilian people at the same time, because uniformed individuals are much more comfortable when there's no rank involved.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Kyle Peterson Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you both for being here, and thank you for your continuing service to our country.
We are specifically studying the hiring of veterans into the public service, but I think what's becoming clear from the testimony today is that the broader picture is the transition to civilian life from the military. A job would be just one component of that.
In my riding of Newmarket—Aurora, there's someone who's recently become a friend of mine. He's an Afghanistan veteran. He went to my high school, much after I did.
When he was discharged, he suffered PTSD. He wasn't diagnosed for the first 18 months. He took the path of self-medication, like many in that situation do. He had trouble. His life almost fell apart. It was obviously stressful on his wife and family. He got the help he needed on his own volition and started an organization that's called Cadence Health and Wellness, which is in Newmarket.
I got to know him through that. I was there for the grand opening when he started, and we got along right away. Going to the same high school was a bond, but it took a while for our relationship to grow and for him to open up. We've had great conversations since. He has a great vision of what this can do for veterans—he's also serving first responders now—in getting them the help they need, such as peer counselling and training, and helping them transition into civilian life as well. He's a visionary, really. He has this grand vision of what's going to happen with his organization, and I for one think it's going to come true. I think he has that commitment and drive.
It was eye-opening for me, as someone who has only been aware of the military not through any personal involvement but from meeting a few people here and there. Being close to Borden, where my riding is, I know a little bit about it. I used to play rugby and soccer against some of the troops who were there visiting from other countries and all that, so I'm familiar with Borden.
The challenges are incomprehensible. I think psychological health is going to be one of the biggest determining factors in whether or not one can transition into civilian life. We have to acknowledge that psychological health problems are as real and as rampant as any physical health problems. We have to figure out how to address those as a society before we can help anyone transition into getting a job.
Now, having a good job, having a purpose and having a mission, of course, are key to mental health; however, if we don't diagnose and treat the underlying problems, holding a job is secondary. A lot of people aren't even capable of it. They're not in a position in their lives where having a job is even probably healthy for them.
I appreciate your testimony. I didn't mean to go on this rant. But what you guys are doing—and what my friend in Newmarket is doing—is a heroic service to our country. I want to thank you for that.
I'll let you make any comments that you might want to add to that before the chair—
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
It speaks volumes that I know who you're talking about because we're all connected, whether it's through a social media group.... That's how I found out about this. It was on Facebook.
5:15 p.m.
As an Individual
We are all connected. If you ask that community, they're going to tell you what we need. We can't make the change, but if you can help with that, by all means ask us. We will give you the answers. We may not give you plausible answers, but if we can dream and be allowed to dream and give you something, the good idea fairy will probably end up working it into a policy that might work for all of us.
5:20 p.m.
Nurse Practitioner Captain (Retired), As an Individual
Yes.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm very happy and thank you very much for letting me come here and speak my truth from my own experience. I've been a trooper and I've been an officer. I'll be very frank. A lot of times we see many of you on TV and you guys fight; it happens in a big family. A lot of times we feel like we're the little guy and that nobody really hears our angst. Nobody really gets it.
Respectfully, many of you speak to colonels and generals, etc., and many times they are so far removed from the boots on the ground that they don't really know or they don't really get it. If you're a colonel or a general, you make a lot of money and you're not worrying about paying for the mortgage as much as a private or a corporal is.
I can't speak for Danielle, but I've been in that position of waiting four months for that cheque. You then have to take money out of your savings that you have from a disability award. Sometimes you have family who lends you money, or maybe you don't buy the brakes that you need for your car.
5:20 p.m.
Nurse Practitioner Captain (Retired), As an Individual
I think it's so important that you have the opportunity to speak to people who are the boots on the ground, because they will tell you their truth. Many times it's unfiltered. They will tell you the truth and how it is and what they go through, day in and day out.
