Government Operations Committee on May 6th, 2019

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I may seem like a rogue element on our own committee here, but the partisan hats are off. There are 338 of us in Parliament and there are 300,000 federal public servants. Just do the math—that's a whole lot of hiring managers. It also takes a while to change the ship of state. What you just said sounds to me like running an ag department without anybody who understands farming. Your unit has one person who understands what it's like to be in the field. It doesn't matter whether you're in finance, ag or somewhere. You'd have on-the-ground experience. That's the kind of thing we're setting this up for. It's to not have your field experience inside your own shop. I take that to heart.

Mr. Zerebecki, you mentioned you would hope that some of the spousal benefits and some of the other things could be loosened up or more liberalized. Can you give us some examples of what you'd like to see happen?

[Fraser Zerebecki]

It's been a long understood issue with regard to moving your family around with the military. It's always hard to find employment for your spouses. When the member, who is the breadwinner in the family, is transitioning, it makes that even harder.

There was the METSpouse program. It's still active. My wife tried to use that program when we relocated, and the opportunities were marginal entry-level opportunities that would not help our situation. Most of them were nighttime, call centre-type jobs. If she had some priority entitlement or a regulatory entitlement to just see the rest of the federal jobs that were out there.... I'm not saying to get them to the front of the line by any means, but just a little more help during that transition period.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Deltell, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to welcome everyone to your House of Commons.

Thank you for doing such a wonderful job of serving our country. I would like to thank the 2,000 men and women who have been deployed in recent weeks, particularly in Quebec, to deal with the unprecedented floods that we've experienced and endured. I know that my colleagues have already offered their thanks. However, I thought that I should do the same, given that I'm from Quebec City, which is very close to the Valcartier military base.

I would like to congratulate you on this incredible collaboration between the provincial and federal governments. As a result of the collaboration, these men and women can take action, in the best sense of the word, and provide a service. This is also why you and these military members joined the Canadian army.

Mr. Généreux, I'll keep talking with you and I'll follow up on what Mr. Aubin and Mr. Boissonnault have said.

You caught our attention earlier when you said that you needed help from friends to submit your CV. Can you elaborate on that? Why doesn't the system work and why did you need help from friends to make it work?

[Luc Généreux]

As my colleagues here today have said, and as a number of people have told me, there's a perception that the candidates on the priority list aren't the right candidates. A number of managers have acknowledged this perception. There's a system whereby positions are posted, and we can be added to a pool of candidates in order to be considered for one of the positions. Managers can draw from this pool as needed.

In my case, I circulated my CV in some departments. Some departments are looking for qualified people, but they have difficulty finding them. When these people saw my CV, they said that they didn't know I was available. That's when I received calls for an interview.

The perception of the system is that it doesn't generate good candidates. In three cases, I was contacted because I had boosted my application by circulating my CV on my own. The system works to some extent.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

You've experienced this situation in four different departments?

[Luc Généreux]

I've experienced this situation at the Department of National Defence, in two cases, and at Public Services and Procurement Canada, in another case. This has happened in at least three departments.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I can understand that Agriculture Canada, for example, may not have the same open-mindedness because the expertise isn't the same. I'm not defending this department, far from it. However, I don't understand why National Defence wasn't able to assess you properly. The one place on the planet where you should be properly assessed is National Defence, since you've served in the Canadian Forces for years.

[Luc Généreux]

Yes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

How do you explain this?

[Luc Généreux]

If a manager knows that a quality candidate is available, the manager may be more interested. On that note, one of my recommendations today would be to inform managers of the benefits that veterans can provide for their departments.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I understand, but why doesn't this work at the Department of National Defence?

[Luc Généreux]

I don't know.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

May I ask you a question? That's why we're here, anyway. Are the managers military members?

[Luc Généreux]

In a number of cases, no. The people who make the decisions are human resources analysts. The analysts are usually the ones who do the initial screening.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

If, by chance, the people responsible for the selection process also had real expertise in the military field, do you think that this could be useful?

[Luc Généreux]

That could make things easier, anyway.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

These people would have a somewhat better idea of what's going on.

[Luc Généreux]

Yes.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Ms. Yip, you have five minutes.

[Jean Yip, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you for your service, and thank you for coming.

We've heard a lot of frustration in searching for a job. I was wondering if you ever approached the veterans ombudsman or someone else who would advocate for you or as a group.

[Fraser Zerebecki]

Having recently gone through this process, I did get to an application. I did not understand why it was rejected. It turns out there were some wording issues in one part of the response. My first course of action in the rejection letter was to go to the Public Service Commission. They told the hiring manager to give me further feedback. I got further feedback. I went back to the Public Service Commission and they said I got further feedback and that's it.

From there I went back to the Department of National Defence. They put me through to VPSU. I was unaware that this unit even existed before then. I had conversations on how I had to wordsmith my submissions to a point that I didn't even understand what I was applying for. That was my process.