Evidence of meeting #172 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was military.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
Mr. Deltell, you have five minutes, please.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and gentlemen, thank you again.
Mr. Perry, you said a few minutes ago that the famous phrase “one-size-fits-all” is not a good approach. This is true for your situation and for so many other issues.
As you know there are three arms: the army, the navy and the air force. I was wondering whether there is any link between those three arms? Is each and every case special, is everyone very unique or do we have some, I would say, trademarks of the military men—the army, the navy and the air force?
5 p.m.
As an Individual
I believe everybody is unique. I haven't spoken to many people from the other fields, but they usually have positions that are trades, so getting out of the military, there's a civilian equivalent of it. Whether that position is government-run or not, they're all unique, every single one. I have multiple friends who all got medical releases, too, and every one of our cases is different.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
If we talk about specific jobs, like those who work on tanks, there are no tanks in civilian life but there are a lot of planes and a lot of boats in civilian life. Isn't it easier for them, the people from the navy and the people from aviation, to get a job in their skill area, in their experience? They work with very high-tech planes, F-18s—well, maybe no more, but at that time it was.
Don't you think that it's a little easier for skilled workers who had a job to do in the navy and air force, instead of the guys who work on the tanks or other military issue with the regular army?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, absolutely, because there's an equivalent. For me there's just police forces. Any job with a gun, that's basically what I'm qualified to do right now.
For those other trades, they have military courses that can be granted on the civilian side, so to have to send them back to school, that's a redundancy, absolutely.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
You talked about the fact that it's too late when you talk about the six months. Would you suggest having more time for that?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
Absolutely, because when you receive a medical discharge, you're not prepared for it. You have a lot of things to decide, even where you're going to move to once you're released from the military and everything that goes along with where you're going to live. There are so many things.
For me to go to school, I had to decide what I wanted to do for the rest of my life in five months, and I had already got my release message after the deadline to apply to college, so I had zero time—a lot of sleepless nights.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Gérard Deltell Conservative Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC
What do you see, 12 months, 18 months, 24 months?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
I see a minimum of 12 months. Six months is far too quick to make all those decisions. They give us the option to appeal the decision, and they can extend that up to three years right now, but I appealed mine and I got a six-month extension. That didn't do much for me.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you.
Our final intervention is from Monsieur Drouin, for five minutes please.
May 13th, 2019 / 5:05 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I'll give you two minutes.
Thank you all for being here. We've been studying this because we realize that there is a problem with transitioning veterans into civilian life, and we were wondering what the status was of the priority hiring.
You have told us what we have heard repeatedly, that there is a disconnect between the military.... You know, if I were in Afghanistan and I needed help, I would come to you. The Public Service Commission doesn't understand your skill sets and that's where there is a problem.
The reason I say that—and I was chuckling to myself—is that when I first came to Canada and I had a university degree from London, England, they told me that my equivalence was grade 12. I thought, “I did Cambridge and Oxford. What are you talking about, saying grade 12?”, so I can see where you're coming from, but I think that is because there's probably a great deal of ignorance of what you do.
With the Canadian Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs and PSC, I think the responsibility should really be with the Canadian Armed Forces, because it is the one that trains you. It has a curriculum that is probably far superior to that of a university degree.
I think you were thinking that we were trying to find a solution, a one-size-fits-all. We're not. We're listening. We're in a listening mode and asking what it is that we can do.
Trust me; I don't know what a warrant officer does, but you do something that's so great that I wouldn't even know what to do with it. I think if we could find a way in which universities and colleges, who get their money because you have to pay to go to college, agree to the equivalence provided by the military—the military has to take the lead—would that work so that your qualifications would be equivalent to a university degree? What are your thoughts, all three of you?
5:05 p.m.
As an Individual
I'll jump in. I believe it would work, but can I suggest that we educate the federal government?
We have a lot of corporate CEOs come in and watch what we do. However, we don't have any human resources people from DFO, Treasury Board or Agriculture. They don't know what we do. Can they not come in and see what we do? Could it not be coordinated, probably through the Canadian Armed Forces, that we bring in human resources managers from the federal government who go to the air force, the navy and the army and see what these people do, so that when they see their resumés, they know what they do and what they can contribute?
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
That's a good suggestion, because I think our analyst can take that suggestion and put it in our report, and we can forward that.
When you talk about "them", perhaps the PSC—the Public Service Commission, which comes under this committee as well—should have a training session. I have been to Cold Lake, Alberta, to do the military part of it. All MPs are invited to do it so that we understand what you are doing.
Maybe that would be right, but how many human resources managers can we send? Perhaps we can bridge the gap—because there is a gap in understanding—in some very innovative ways, rather than the staid ways. When you talk about federal governments, sometimes people mix up MPs as government. MPs are there on a temporary basis. The bureaucracy stays full time.
If we can get ideas from you, whether you think about it now or later, I think that would be extremely important for us. That's my suggestion.
Mr. Perry, six months before you leave the military, do they give you enough tools to say, “I'm a medically released veteran and I will be going from here to there.” Do they give you enough tools to work with so that you can transition in a smooth manner?
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
I believe some tools are there for us, but again, it's on the member to seek them out. One option given to me was to go to the JPSU, but I didn't want my file switching hands that many times, so I opted out of it.
5:10 p.m.
As an Individual
It's the joint personnel support unit. That's where they send injured members to possibly heal, and if they don't, they end up releasing them. I've heard from my friends who were in that unit that it was a little smoother and helped them a lot more. Again, because of my five-month timeline from my release, I didn't want to have to go to another unit, possibly have my file lost, or this or that thing screwed up, so I opted out of it.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
I'm sorry, we're completely out of time.
To all of you who attended today, whether you're in person or by video conference, I want to thank you for your attendance. Again, to underscore what every member of this committee believes and feels, we want to thank you for your service to your country.
Should you have further suggestions or recommendations—we heard some very good information today—and you want to have that information transferred to our clerk, I would encourage you to do so directly. The information you provide will help form part of our final report. I strongly encourage you, should you have any further recommendations, to contact our clerk as quickly as possible.
With that, gentlemen, once again, thank you, all.
We will suspend now, colleagues, for a couple of minutes to get ready to go in camera for some committee business.
We are suspended.
[Proceedings continue in camera]