Government Operations Committee on June 5th, 2019

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Colleagues, I'll call the meeting to order, if I may. We do have quorum.

We were thinking that we would perhaps be interrupted by further procedural votes this afternoon. That doesn't appear to be the case, looking at what has been going on in Routine Proceedings, so I think we'll have an uninterrupted meeting from here until we adjourn.

Minister Qualtrough, thank you for being with us today. My understanding, Minister, is that you will be able to be with us until 5:30. Is that correct?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Minister of Public Services and Procurement]

Correction: I can stay until 5:45.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

All right. Thank you very much.

Second, the minister has agreed that we can go directly into questions if we have concurrence from this committee. Do committee members agree that the minister's speaking notes be taken as read and appended to the evidence of today's meetings?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We are agreed.

[See Appendix—Remarks by the Honourable Carla Qualtrough, Minister of Public Services and Procurement]

That gives us approximately 40 minutes then, colleagues. If we were to go to the regular rounds of seven and five minutes, we would not be able to get all the questions in. Would we agree to have five-minute questions for everyone? That would allow more committee members to ask questions.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

That said and the agreement being in hand, we would ask the government side, starting with Madam Mendès, to start our five-minute rounds of questions.

Madam Mendès.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thanks to all of you for being here.

Thank you very much, Minister.

I think, considering my ethnic origins, I'll take the bull by the horns and start with Phoenix and try to get from you, Minister, a sort of status report on what has been happening with the whole system, including how the mitigation measures that have been taken are addressing the backlog, and what your expectations are, if you wish, for the next six to 12 months.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you for the question and, of course, thanks for having me and our officials here to answer your questions. We will of course endeavour, as always, to give you the best and most considered answers we can.

I'm pleased to say that we continue to make progress on the Phoenix file. We have decreased the backlog by about 209,000 cases since January 2018, which represents about a third—a 33% reduction—of the backlog in that time period. We've increased the number of people working at the pay centre and in our regional offices to around 1,500 employees, plus an additional 200 employees working in the client contact centre.

We now have, as of last Friday, transitioned all client departments serviced by the pay centre to the pay pod model. I was in Moncton for the last transition, where it was quite a significant accomplishment for our public servants. I'm pleased to announce that the early pods, pod zero and pod one, are at a 48% reduction in their respective client departments. We are seeing results—of course, as I've said many times to this committee, not as quickly as we would like.

I would say that client and customer morale is up. Certainly, public servant morale is up. I felt that first-hand last Friday in Moncton.

Overall, we are seeing a steady decline. We are cleaning up files. The pay pod model is definitely proving to have been the special sauce, if you will, in taming this dragon.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you very much, Minister. That is encouraging news. Let's hope it will continue that way.

On the federal science and technology initiative, I'm somewhat bewildered about what it is. Could you please explain to us what the objectives of this initiative are and how would we attract talent to participate in such an initiative?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

This is an initiative in partnership with ISED, with science and economic development, obviously, to modernize both where public servants do science and how public servants exchange information related to science. The idea is that many of the facilities that our federal scientists use are antiquated and aren't giving them the tools they need to do good science, nor the capacity to share information. It's a very antiquated model of science, for lack of a better way of putting it.

We have endeavoured, and we now have a deputy minister to....

Or is it an ADM? I apologize.

[Bill Matthews, Deputy Minister, Public Services and Procurement Canada, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

It's an associate deputy minister.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

We have an associate deputy minister responsible for this initiative to modernize the facilities and work with the science community, both inside the federal government and within academia and beyond, to basically revitalize how we do science and the science that's done within the Government of Canada.

I don't know if my deputy would like to add anything.

[Bill Matthews]

Thank you, Minister.

The only thing I'd add is that the starting point for this is around creating horizontal or more collaborative infrastructure that basically treats the laboratory space as a horizontal government-wide asset, as opposed to department by department. We're looking at more collaborative, innovative, modern and accessible laboratory space, but as the minister said, it is the underpinning of a broader science strategy.

[Paul Glover, President, Shared Services Canada]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I have something else to add.

Science today is increasingly about data—access to data and large datasets—so we are looking at the information technology to support the work in the labs. Also, science is often collaborative, so we're making sure that federal scientists have the collaboration tools to work with international colleagues and partners.

When we think about infrastructure, it's not just the physical infrastructure but the IT infrastructure necessary for the science of today.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

That's good to hear because, yes, I know that is always an issue, but—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Madam Mendès, we have about 15 seconds.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Does this include the national research centre?

[Bill Matthews]

The National Research Council—

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Yes, the council. Sorry.

Yes? Okay. Thank you.

Thank you very much, I'm done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We have the Honourable Rob Nicholson with us today.

It's good to see you, Mr. Nicholson. Thanks for putting your retirement plans on temporary hold.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You have five minutes, sir.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I was going to retire yesterday, but I decided that I have this opportunity here.

Thank you, Minister Qualtrough, and to those who are with you, thank you for your attendance here today.

As you're probably aware, there's quite a bit of discussion about this article, this matter, that my colleague Mr. McCauley raised with you:

A journalist’s question about a potential problem with the Royal Canadian Navy’s new Arctic...ships prompted federal bureaucrats to generate more than 200 pages of documents as they warned Irving Shipbuilding about the news outlet’s interest in the multibillion dollar program.

Is that a standard thing? I mean, if somebody asks a question, you sort of tip off...or does somebody get a hold of...? In fact, the journalist has put in an access to information request, and it's been more than 30 days since, which is outside the limit, and he can't seem to get any information. He's been directed around and is not getting anything. Do you find this concerning?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Absolutely. Perhaps I'll answer in two parts, if you'll indulge me.

The first part has to do with when we get a media request in the department and in my office. We want to make sure that we give journalists information that's accurate, so it is a common practice to reach out and verify what's been asked of us. What is not common practice is to share the confidential information of that journalist, and that is unacceptable. I have apologized and certainly have directed, both at the official level and within my own political staff, that it can't happen in the future.

We also have no...and by design I would say this.... We also have no role in in access to information requests. That is a completely separate process outside my minister's office; by design, it's an effort, I believe, to be as I think neutral and objective in the culling of information.... I wouldn't know who has made a request or the status of that request. What, again, in this case should have happened if that information weren't available within the timeline is that there should have been an extension granted, or a request for an extension, as I understand it.

Bill, perhaps you can help me with the process.