Government Operations Committee on June 5th, 2019

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay, it's my time.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. Welcome. This is your first meeting here.

You were part of the process where we have been trying to align the budget and the main estimates. When the government tried to do it from a reconciliation perspective, it put in a vote 40—a one-time vote. There were challenges with it. It was assumed that from a governance perspective, it was not the right thing to do because only one committee, which is ours, was able to review vote 40.

I know the government has listened and made changes. Could you tell us what are some of the changes going forward? How are you continuing to improve accountability and transparency so that we as MPs can understand the spending?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for raising the topic of the budget implementation vote from last year, which I saw as a step forward from what we had before.

Before, we had a situation where the estimates were tabled first and the budget was tabled afterwards, so the estimates had no relation to the decisions being made by government through the budget as to what spending would be added for the year. That was the disconnect that you as a committee were aiming to improve.

It was improved by the budget implementation vote, by taking all of those budgetary items and putting them in one budget implementation vote, which was broken down by departmental and program intention for those funds so that when they were approved by Treasury Board and forwarded to the departments they could be tracked monthly online.

The committee's concerns that this was not going far enough were very valid. It was an important first step, but we needed to do more. That is exactly what Treasury Board did this year. It took the budgetary funds, broke them into the individual departments' allocations and named what program they were for. They were not discretionary funds for that department; they were targeted to a purpose outlined in the budget. Those funds are now scrutinized by the appropriate committee.

From my perspective and that of Treasury Board, this is another step forward, and a big one, in the direction Parliament has been asking for, which is to have faster and fuller ability to follow the money and to be accountable to Canadians for government spending.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you for that.

When we look at the pillars in the budget and the estimate process, we looked at pillar four as well. In your departmental plans you talked about pillar four being the departmental plans being tabled the same day as the main estimates.

How are departments managing this new process? What are some of the challenges and opportunities that you see?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'll take a crack at it, and because the officials with me are the ones who really had to wrestle with that, I'll turn it over to them as well.

One of the concepts here is that the departmental plans also need to align with the budget to help parliamentarians understand what's planned. The challenge is that when there were only a few weeks between the tabling of the budget and the tabling of the estimates and departmental plans, not all of that planned spending could be incorporated in the departmental plans. However, the departments very quickly worked to complete their plans and tabled supplementary pages to bring it to full alignment. That full alignment was in place before any of the committees were examining the estimates and the departmental plans. That is another piece of the puzzle, as you mentioned, pillar four, of reporting and information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Unfortunately, comprehensive as your answer was, there is no time left for any additional commentary by your officials.

We'll now go to Mr. McCauley for five minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Minister, welcome to your first official meeting with us.

Last summer, the government stripped seniority rights from veterans working in the public service. May I ask why?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I think the specific dollar implications of that for specific departments are probably most fully answered at the committee that studies the departmental plans and the estimates of Veterans Affairs. If my officials can answer, I'm sure they would be happy to add.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I would love to hear why your government stripped those rights from our veterans who served this country, some wounded, and put their lives on the line, and returned and got a job—

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

That's drama.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's not drama for people who have served this country, Ms. Ratansi.

They came back and served and received a job in the public service and this government stripped away their seniority rights. I'd love to hear.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I see there will be some information on that.

Given the context of the question, that it is from a member of a government that cut the budget of Veterans Affairs and shut the offices to support veterans, it seems a very surprising question.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Minister, your government stripped seniority rights from valued veterans working for the public service and you're blaming a previous government for cutting costs. Please answer the question: Why would your government strip seniority rights from veterans working in the public sector?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'll turn it over to Mr. Purves.

[Glenn Purves, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

I think we can come back to the clerk with an answer.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Are you serious? This requires a written answer?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I think the witness said it would require a written answer, at least in his estimation.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's perfect. We should move on.

[Glenn Purves]

I think certain committees are charged with getting answers to certain questions and—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We heard in this committee from someone from Treasury Board just a couple of weeks ago that in June 2018 they stripped seniority rights from veterans serving in the public service. But if you need to get back to us that's fine.

I'll move on.

It's been reported that in the negotiations with the public sector, we've increased the wage increase offer from 0.75% up to 1.5% per year over the length of the contract. Can you let us know the total cost per year in wages and in benefits, please?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Are you referring to the current set of collective bargaining?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

We don't bargain in public. That bargaining is under way right now, and so, Mr. McCauley

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Minister, it's been announced in the newspaper—

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'm happy to let you know the bargaining agents for over 140,000 public servants have reached tentative agreements on Phoenix damages with our government—