Government Operations Committee on Oct. 5th, 2016

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Make it a very short question, Mr. Duvall.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I'll just make a comment. We heard from other people that the high cost has affected them as a council, as a municipality, because they are demanding this stuff. It has now come to who's paying, and whether it's the taxpayers or your businesses. It's either Canada Post, or they are going to be charging through another way that's downloading a cost to you. I just want to put that to you.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you.

Mr. Ayoub, you have the floor for seven minutes.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

It would be better for understanding, yes.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the people of Prince Edward Island for welcoming us. It is very pleasant being here. I am from Montreal and this is the first time I have visited this province.

We are conducting nationwide consultations about Canada Post. Is this the first time you have been consulted about this national service company? Have you had the opportunity to discuss it before or share your positions?

[Penny Walsh McGuire]

No.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Okay.

So this is a special opportunity that you have not had in the past, before we make important national changes. It is interesting to hear different points of view, especially those of the chamber of commerce and of small and medium sized enterprises.

Ms. McGuire, I would like to hear your opinion as a representative of a SME. When there are issues with cash flow, revenues or a drop in services, what steps can be taken to address them? Can you summarize in two or three steps?

[Penny Walsh McGuire]

I think the reaction from the business community, when you're having challenges with cash flow, as any SME has probably faced in its various life cycles, is to do just what Canada Post's task force is doing in this process, and that is to look at opportunities to increase revenue or reduce expenses. In line with the recommendation from our committee, I think we do need to look at the long-term sustainability and the costs. We are quite conscious of the makeup of Canada Post's overhead, and the need to also look at alternative solutions for revenue, whether it be a tiered-pricing model or other lines of business that perhaps were outlined in the task force.

I did note a lot of discussion around commercial banking, and many of our members are the commercial banks. The report suggested that that might not be an opportunity for all communities in Canada, but it might be something that could be looked at.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

The status quo is not an option in those kinds of situations.

[Penny Walsh McGuire]

Right.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

We agree on that.

[Penny Walsh McGuire]

Yes.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I'm going to switch to French, so maybe you can put on your ear piece.

I'm very tight on time, so I want to make sure that I make my point and have the right question.

That is an interesting parallel between public transit and service companies. It is a good comparison but it is not perfect. With regard to public transit, whether for buses, trains or the subway, the service level can vary depending on whether you live downtown where population density is high, or outside of the downtown area.

Is it a service model that could vary depending on the options chosen? If I want much faster service, I chose a personalized service that might be a bit more expensive, but it is faster and better for me. As a business, I am ready to pay it, but the service is based on what I pay. Basic service is always available. Could this model be studied and perhaps offered to businesses right across Canada?

My question is for either one of the witnesses.

[Katharine MacDonald]

I'll just share this very quickly.

I recently spoke at a legislative standing committee on a separate issue, but I'm realizing how many parallels there are. It was on the closing of the ferry for the summer. I see that there should be equitable access to service for rural and urban communities, regardless of where you live. I'm not sure how that can necessarily be achieved without having the costs distributed in such a way that no one is disproportionately affected by the rise in cost.

To speak to your question to Penny, I spoke recently to other members of my group of small business owners. They said that the way they first started to react to the hike in postal prices was to try to produce higher-value products to sell, so that each time they had to mail something, they were going to earn more revenue on the product itself. That's so the costs would be more proportional, I suppose, to the items they were mailing. However, that's a difficult thing for everyone to do.

In one way, it's not entirely fair for the people who produce smaller items and still want to rely on a fair, frequent, and fast service.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

My question wasn't on not giving service or giving poor service. It was about giving the right level of service, and maybe a superior level of service if you're paying more.

[Katharine MacDonald]

Yes.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

That kind of model of a business could be an option.

[Katharine MacDonald]

Ideally.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Madam McGuire, I have another question or maybe a comment. I just want to be sure of something, because sometimes we can discuss all kinds of options around the table. Privatization is not on the radar right now; it's not the way we want to go. I just want to make sure that it's not an option on the government side right now.

[Penny Walsh McGuire]

It was noted by our policy committee in reviewing the task force report that privatization was not on the radar.

To speak to your question about enhanced service and the fee for enhanced service, which is essentially what you're saying, I think our membership in the business community would be supportive of that. Really, the way the private sector operates today is that you pay for an enhanced service.

I do note that the majority of Canadians and the business community are happy with the service, but to our point, we have noticed a change.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We're down to our last two intervenors. They will be five minutes each.

We will go first to Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks for joining us. This is my first time in P.E.I. and the last province for me to visit.

[A voice]

Hear, hear!

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks for having us here.

Mr. Ayoub was talking all last night about privatization, so I thought he would bring this up.

Thanks for being here. You have both spoken very well.

Ms. McGuire, you mentioned subsidies. We noticed that the P.E.I. chamber, in their submission for the budget, talked about making sure that the government continues with the promise to reduce taxes. It's a real—

[Penny Walsh McGuire]

Contrast.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes, and Ms. MacDonald, I'll get to you as well.

We see this a lot and it's human nature: I want this, I want this, but I want that guy to pay. Unfortunately, we're running out of that guy. If we're going to subsidize Canada Post, it's going to have to from higher taxes, but at the same time you're calling for lower taxes.

That's the same with pricing: we want better, but, by the way, we don't want to pay because it's hurting our business.