Government Operations Committee on Oct. 5th, 2016

[Marcia Carroll]

Yes.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Casey, I listened to you very closely, and I really want to comment on your honesty and integrity, for one thing.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Yes.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I read a statement in the paper that you had made. You felt this was a temporary situation when they put those CMBs in. You said that:

We committed during the election to save home mail delivery. That remains our commitment. Our commitment has not been fulfilled by this decision by Canada Post. The next step is for the new government to review the mandate of Canada Post and to fulfill our election commitment to save home delivery, and that's what we'll do.

Then you've guided us today to your platform, for which I thank you.

I look at that as two different statements. One was that you're saving home delivery. There was no question about it. Then, we were going to look at reviewing the whole situation, make Canada Post profitable, and make sure the people get the best service for their money.

My question to you is this. Why is this committee even discussing home delivery, when it should only be reviewing what it's doing wrong and making recommendations for Canada Post going forward? The home delivery is automatic. There are no changes in this. That's what your government said, that's what I believe you're saying, and that's what I believe your platform is saying. So, why is this committee reviewing and making recommendations for home delivery when your government already said that it was going to keep it?

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

I have no idea. You shouldn't be.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you very much for that. It's a great answer.

One of the other things with moving home delivery to community mailboxes is that the decision has created a cost for Canada Post. It was its obligation and its onus, and it's created a cost to the municipal taxpayer for garbage collection, street lighting, and snow removal. I heard my colleague here asking, who did it before? Well, the city does its stuff, and the people do their own. The people are supposed to remove the snow that's in front of their homes on the sidewalk. But it could be piled over. It could be a snow berm or anything. It's Canada Post's responsibility to get access to that, to salt the area, and to make sure it's safe; that's not anybody else's. However, all those things cost money. It was its plan that it did this, saying this is the best way to do it. Do you think it is right that the responsibilities now become those of the municipal taxpayers, and not Canada Post, for the service we pay them for?

[Marcia Carroll]

No, I don't think it's right. We see it all the time, where things are downloaded onto the smallest form of government to take on more responsibility. It's not correct. I'm a community advocate, not a business person, but I think there need to be ways that we look at efficiencies within Canada Post; and I don't think that necessarily means cutting postal workers.

As a corporation, maybe it should be looking at growth as opposed to reduction. How does it better build its business? How can it use a better business model and still honour the workers and services it has? Maybe it needs to cut some middle or upper management; I don't know. Those are the things that should be drilled down to and looked at, not just broad sweeping changes where there's no consultation—and certainly no consultation with the people who are mostly affected, the most vulnerable in our society.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Chair, I won't have any more questions, but as Mr. Casey said, I wonder if this committee can find out if we have the mandate to talk about and discuss saving door-to-door delivery service, when this government has already made that commitment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

The mandate of this committee is to consult, not to direct.

Quite frankly, in my view—and I've been around this game a long time—the end result will be a political decision as much as anything. That's where the government will have to make some choices, some difficult choices.

However, in terms of this committee, Mr. Duvall, we will be reflecting the views of those people who have appeared before us, and that will be our report.

[Scott Duvall, NDP, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Now we'll go on to Monsieur Ayoub.

You have the floor for seven minutes.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the two witnesses and my colleague for welcoming us.

To begin, I will address Marcia Carroll.

Thank you for your work on defending the interests of seniors and persons with disabilities. Not everyone has a functional limitation, but we could all find ourselves in that situation some day.

I thought about these people a great deal when Canada Post made the changes and imposed its five-point plan. There was no consultation or information provided and it was done at the last minute. I was the mayor of a municipality that lost home delivery service. I can tell you that I experienced it first-hand. Mr. Casey, on the other hand, experienced it in a special way in Charlottetown, six days after the federal election. It happened extremely quickly.

A number of witnesses have talked about individuals with special needs. Given that 32% of mail is home delivery and 68% to community mail boxes, in the case of buildings with multiple units or in other situations, could Canada Post potentially offer personalized service for persons with reduced mobility and those with special needs?

[Marcia Carroll]

I'm sorry, I had trouble hearing you.

Did you say a phone line service or a first line service?

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I referred to home special delivery, a special or adapted service for use by disabled persons. Is it a way to answer the loss of home delivery?

[Marcia Carroll]

You could use a couple of different lenses to answer that question, and one is a lens around accommodation. Would Canada Post then be making accommodations to have a specialized service for people with disabilities? Yes, that would be the case, but if you really look at it from an equal rights perspective, the door-to-door service allows people with disabilities to have the same service as anybody else who receives door-to-door service. Then there is no singling out of a group of people; there's no special sign that you have to put on your house; there's no special application that you have to go through to get the service. It's the same service as everybody else. That's what equal rights are, so that people have the same rights as everybody else.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Are there persons with disabilities who are among the 68% of Canadians who do not receive home delivery? Are there people with special needs in that group? I would expect so.

[Marcia Carroll]

Yes. There are people who live in communities who have had community mailboxes for a long time, and they've had to go to their community mailboxes. Most of those community mailboxes, before the city of Charlottetown lost door-to-door delivery, were in the suburbs. Individuals who live in the suburbs traditionally own vehicles, so they could drive to their community mailboxes. The issue then was around access, the snow removal, the garbage removal, the safety piece as well, and the lack of universal design in the placement of those boxes. There were issues then, but not everybody had door-to-door delivery.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Casey, it is unusual for you to appear before the committee, yet your experience was similar to that of many other people.

Canada Post's plan was not implemented as initially planned. A moratorium was declared and we are very happy about that. Right now, we have the privilege of examining Canada Post's services. It is something that has not been done for many years. We are examining the outlook for Canada Post.

What do you think about the fact that 68% of people do not get home delivery while 32% still do? The service is not equal for everyone. Should we return to a single service type—based on your opinion and the party's platform—so that 100% of the population has home delivery? What are your thoughts on that?

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Ayoub.

It is up to the committee to recommend how to follow through on our promise. It is a clear promise to save and restore home delivery. It is true and you are right. Before October 19, that is, before the federal election, about a third or half of households had to use community mail boxes. Six days later, it was only community mail boxes here.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Excuse me for interrupting. Yes, it was converted. But there is a margin of difference between saving and restoring something.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Yes, of course.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

There are also people who lost home delivery. There are people who were opposed beforehand and there are people who ultimately lost the service and who did not see a difference. That is why I am interested in the case of people with disabilities, which Ms. Carroll discussed.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Yes.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Perhaps home delivery is extremely important to them and it should be continued.

In our meeting today, we have to consider recommendations to improve service and to maintain the quality of service Canada Post offers. Up until now, it has not been a one size fits all approach.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Okay.