Evidence of meeting #86 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was phoenix.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I want to share the Drouin family case with the committee. The case was featured in the Journal de Montréal just two weeks ago, on April 29, 2017. It's not a secret.
We're no longer supposed to have serious cases, but Mr. Drouin hasn't been paid in six months. Two weeks ago, the article in question quoted Mr. Drouin as follows, in French:
I'm completely in limbo. I feel abandoned in this situation, and I don't know whether I'll be paid eventually. I'm in debt. Everything is on credit cards. ... I may face bankruptcy.
Ms. Lemay, don't tell us that your department doesn't follow the information released in the media. It's impossible. Your department is well aware of this family's story. I don't like focusing on specific cases. However, it's tangible proof that, even though the backlog is clearing, there are still extreme cases today. It's unacceptable and incomprehensible. With all the efforts made, how can people not have been paid in six months? It's ridiculous.
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
You're right. We follow the news. Personally, I'm not aware of the case, but I'll check it as soon as we leave this meeting room.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
So far this year we've issued 41,000 amended T4s and close to 8,000 amended Relevé 1s. That's about 49,000 amended tax slips so far, and we'll be issuing more between now and the end of May.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'd say more like probably 60,000.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
How did that happen? I realize there are issues with Phoenix, but we brought it up in July and we brought it up the next month at committee. We brought it up in September and people said there was a plan, yet 60,000 people are wandering around with the wrong T4s.
This gets back to my issue with Phoenix, that at every step of the way we've known there were issues but they just seem to have been brushed aside as though they weren't a big deal. This seems to be just one more example of “It's not a big deal”. The Prime Minister himself stated that we didn't pay enough attention to it. How can we be assured that we are paying enough attention to it? Mr. Clarke just brought up a situation of someone not having been paid since October. All we're getting is platitudes and “don't worry about it.” We are worried about it, and I don't think we're getting a strong sense of confidence that it is being addressed properly and it is being fixed.
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
If you get the sense from me that we're brushing you aside and not taking this seriously, then I'm sorry but that's not at all the case.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Every issue that you have raised we've looked into.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
We were told a short while ago that you were turning the corner, but now we're hearing from the unions that it's getting worse.
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
But we have turned the corner. We have been able to stabilize it. There are things that are getting better. There are also new things that we are now facing and that we have to address. This is ongoing.
To come back to the T4s, that happened because, as you will remember, there were a number of overpayments that were—
May 11th, 2017 / 10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Actually I'm going to move on, because I'm short on time.
Bill C-344, which is just making its way through the House right now, gives the minister the authority to require an assessment of the benefits a community derives from a construction, maintenance, or repair project.
Have you done a cost analysis on how much this could end up costing the government, costing the taxpayers, if this bill passes?
10:05 a.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I will defer to see if Les has anything on this, because I don't have that information.
10:05 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We don't have that information with us but we can go back and provide it to the clerk.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
You don't have the information as to whether you've done an analysis, or you don't have the analysis?
10:05 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'm not sure we've done the analysis. I'll have to verify that and report back to the clerk.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
For the last year and a half, we've been bringing up the fair wage policy that has been in and out of the minister's mandate. Have you done an analysis on what the cost will be to the taxpayers for that?
The other part of the question is how you reconcile the difficulties of small and medium-sized enterprises in doing business with the government as it is. One of their biggest complaints, of course, is the amount of red tape they encounter.
Has analysis been done on Bill C-344 and the fair wage policy, and how much extra red tape these small and medium-sized enterprises are going to encounter in dealing with the government?
10:10 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
On fair wages, we are working with our colleagues from Employment and Social Development Canada on policy options, which will likely be moving forward over the course of the next number of months.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Have you done a cost analysis on what it will cost taxpayers?
10:10 a.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We will be working with ESDC, so that will be part of the work that's ongoing with them now.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
So you will be doing a cost analysis.
Will you be doing analysis on the extra red tape or burden that's going to be placed on small and medium-sized enterprises if these changes are made?
