Evidence of meeting #88 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was results.
A video is available from Parliament.
May 18th, 2017 / 9:10 a.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Thank you for being here, Minister Brison.
As you know, there are still tens of thousands of federal employees who have pay problems, and now tax problems, as a result of the Phoenix boondoggle. You and other cabinet ministers have formed a task force to try to finally fix Phoenix. I'm wondering, how many times has that task force met?
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
The Phoenix pay system issue is one with which we are seized as a government. It is one that engages every department and agency.
When the implementation of the Phoenix pay system occurred, there was a letting go of about 700 pay or pay—
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
I'm just trying to find out how many times this task force has met. You're on it.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
In the past we met and had meetings and/or had calls, I believe, four times in the last period. We are having discussions as cabinet, members of that committee, on an ongoing basis.
What's really important from this terrible situation is to learn in terms of the future. When you're implementing an enterprise-wide IT solution, you ought to maintain the legacy system during that period until the new system is working well.
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Why didn't your government do that? There were all sorts of problems with phase one of Phoenix—
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
The previous government laid off 700 pay professionals to try to save $70 million to contribute to an illusory surplus on the eve of the election.
I can tell you—
9:10 a.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Given that the previous government made that bad decision, why did your government go ahead with the implementation of Phoenix?
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Well, in fact, the previous government did actually lay off those people.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
It put us in a situation where we needed a pay system, but, for all intents and purposes on the human resource perspective, they had really gutted the previous legacy system, which was important.
In terms of what we are doing, and in fact, your minister from Saskatchewan....
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Your neighbour MP Ralph Goodale is the chairman of that committee. We are working closely with him. Treasury Board is working closely with him, but also with other ministers. We are working closely with the unions representing the public service.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Of these cabinet ministers, who's going to ultimately be accountable for Phoenix?
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
We are the government and we take our responsibilities to fix this seriously. It is something to which we are committed.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
If by some point in the future, Phoenix is still a mess, are all six of you going to resign?
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
We are committed to fixing Phoenix, Mr. Weir.
We are, in good faith, working very hard and exhausting all options to fix what is a very complex and difficult challenge operationally.
I can tell you—
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS
Mr. Weir, if it were simple, it would have been fixed by now. It's not. It's a big problem. It's one to which we are absolutely committed. We have a moral responsibility to pay our public servants on time and accurately.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
I completely agree, and in trying to address this big problem, your task force is going to spend up to $140 million. I'm wondering if you could tell us how that figure was arrived at.