Evidence of meeting #92 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Brian Pagan  Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat
Renée LaFontaine  Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Kami Ramcharan  Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services, Privy Council Office
Marcia Santiago  Executive Director, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

9 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Sorry, not Renée—

9 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

She helps ensure that I have good answers.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

It's not Renée, but the other lady.

9 a.m.

Renée LaFontaine Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marcia.

9 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Sorry Marcia.

You mentioned that 90% of the contracts have been signed now. How many people does that cover approximately?

9 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

It's fairly commensurate with the public service, so it would be approximately—

9 a.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Brian Pagan

The number I have in my head is 185,000.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

Okay, it's in the 185,000 ballpark. If Brian says so, it must be true.

9 a.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Brian Pagan

It's 87%, and I believe the—

9 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

With regard to the $565 million in the estimates, how many people does that cover, then? I'm sure you've read the PBO report on the estimates. They're stating that the numbers that they had for salary adjustments were applied across the public service. It could be as high as $2.3 billion, and you have $565 million. What's the difference, please?

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Brian Pagan

The reference here is to numbers that were included in supplementary estimates (C), the $535 million. As I think everyone realizes, those funds were not required. They were included in supplementary estimates (C) on the possibility that agreements would be ratified and payments made. Those agreements were not ratified before the end of the fiscal year, and payments were not made.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Of the $625 million—

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Brian Pagan

The difference between the $535 million and the $625 million is that since the supplementary estimates (C), we've actually signed additional agreements, and therefore we're anticipating higher costs and payouts. That number reflects the best information at the time of supplementary (A)s, which was about 87% of the....

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Will that be enough to cover it? I mention the PBO's comments. It could be $3.2 billion, so that's quite a gap.

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Brian Pagan

Right. It covers the amount forecast for deals signed up to that point in time. It is hoped there will be additional progress in collective bargaining, and we will see subsequent amounts in subsequent supplementary estimates.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

How much to you expect those to be, to get that last 13% signed up?

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

I think the PBO was speaking of—was it $2.7 billion?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

$2.3 billion.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

That goes to 2018-19.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Okay, so it was $1.2 billion for this year.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Scott Brison Liberal Kings—Hants, NS

I think he was saying 2018-19, so I think he was looking further ahead in terms of future fiscal—

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

But he says $1.2 for this fiscal year.

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Brian Pagan

It's his forecast. Because negotiations—

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

But your forecast is $625 million for 87%.

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat

Brian Pagan

This is to cover the deals already signed, and it's the retroactive portion of that. Because negotiations are ongoing with additional bargaining agents, it is really quite difficult to tell the total cost of salaries, both this year and into the future.

His estimates and methodology were very sound. We take no issue with the numbers advanced by the Parliamentary Budget Officer.