Government Operations Committee on June 8th, 2017

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Colleagues, if I could have your attention, I'll call the meeting to order.

We're pleased to have the Honourable Scott Brison with us today.

Mr. Brison, welcome once again to our committee.

To start off the proceedings, Minister, I would ask you to introduce your officials who are with you today, and then I'll ask you to initiate your opening statement.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

On a personal note, Mr. Chair—and I'm sure I'm speaking on behalf of the committee—we're glad to see you back in fighting form. Welcome back. We spoke during your recovery. You seem to be doing great. All of us look forward to having a little break this summer, but I particularly hope that you take some time. We are very happy to see that you are feeling better and are back to work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much, Minister. I do appreciate the gesture and the phone calls during my convalescence. It was very kind of you, and I do appreciate it. Thanks very much.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Today, Mr. Chairman, I'm going to be focusing on supplementary estimates (A). I'm here with Brian Pagan, Renée LaFontaine, and Marcia Santiago, who is here from the expenditure management sector.

As you know, supplementary estimates are tabled three times a year. They present information to Parliament on spending that was either not ready for inclusion in the main estimates, or that has since been refined to account for new developments in programs or services. With that in mind, we want to make it easier for Parliament to hold the government to account.

However, as noted by the PBO in his most recent report on supplementary estimates (A), preparing the main estimates prior to the budget means that these documents are not aligned. I agree with the PBO on that. That's why we have advanced an agenda on estimates reform designed to properly sequence the budget and estimates processes. I look forward to working with parliamentarians on this agenda in terms of a four-pillared approach of purpose-based budgeting; reconciliation of cash versus accrual accounting; departmental results frameworks; and of course, budget and estimates sequencing.

We are already making some progress in terms of better information and sensible changes to the process. These supplementary estimates (A) provide an online table detailing the activities of organizations participating in horizontal initiatives that span multiple departments. We'll provide more details on those in a moment.

We're also continuing the practice, which started last year, of reconciling funding announced in this year's budget with funding requested through this year's estimates. This comparison makes it easier for Parliament to track government spending and to hold our government or future governments to account.

With respect to budget 2017, this year's supplementary estimates (A) include funding for 26 items announced in this year's budget. Indeed, of the $3.7 billion to be voted by Parliament in supplementary estimates (A), $1 billion is to implement budget 2017 measures.

Mr. Chair, both we and the PBO recognize that this is less than last year. It is still significantly more than what was accomplished two years ago with budget 2015 in supplementary estimates (A).

More importantly, our government has started a significant discussion around the importance of getting the basic sequencing right so that the priorities of the budget are presented before the program plans of the estimates. This would allow a bottom-line reconciliation to the budget in the tabled main estimates of the same fiscal year, which would be a first for any government. It would also eliminate the confusion caused by having Parliament vote on supply bills for both the main estimates and supplementary estimates in the same period.

Through supplementary estimates, the government is asking Parliament to approve spending on programs and initiatives of importance to Canadians.

Mr. Chair, our government is committed to growing the Canadian economy and to strengthening the middle class.

Allow me to detail four of the seven horizontal initiatives involving multiple organizations. They include $221.7 million for the oceans protection plan; $195.8 million to support the targeted admission of 300,000 immigrants under the 2017 immigration levels plan; $146.8 million for the youth employment strategy, which was laid out in budget 2017; and $99.8 million to support infrastructure and programs for indigenous early learning and child care.

Other major items voted in these estimates include $446.5 million for compensation to first nations for specific claims settlements; $400 million for transfer payments with the provinces and territories to support early learning and child care; $235.4 million for national rail passenger transportation services, as announced in budget 2017; $174.7 million for operation return home to repair, rebuild, and re-establish four Manitoba first nations communities that were affected by the catastrophic flooding in 2011; $166.7 million to maintain mission-critical services to Canadians; and finally, $162.8 million to maintain the integrity of Canada's border operations.

I’d also like to draw your attention to the portion of the supplementary estimates (A) that apply to my department.

The Treasury Board Secretariat is seeking Parliament’s authority for $625 million for adjustments made to terms and conditions of service or employment of the federal public administration.

This funding will cover retroactive payments and salary increases resulting from collective agreements that were recently signed or are expected to be signed in the coming weeks.

Our government is also committed to improving and strengthening parliamentary oversight of spending. With the changes we've made so far, we're raising the bar on better openness, transparency, and accountability. This is reflected in the fact that this May, Canada was ranked number two in the global open data barometer survey. It's a global measure of how governments are in terms of publishing and using open data for accountability, innovation, and social impact. We have more work to do, but we are achieving some progress that is being recognized.

It is also reflected in the Government of Canada's recent election to the Open Government Partnership steering committee ahead of 11 other candidates. This is a global organization affiliated with the United Nations.

Mr. Chair, as you know, I enjoy working with parliamentarians and all stakeholders to find ways to improve the estimates process. We can agree that better aligning processes and timing for the budget and estimates will strengthen the clarity and consistency of financial reporting.

Recently, on June 2, I had my 20th anniversary as a member of Parliament. In that time I spent 17 of those years in opposition and three in government. Just to speak of the role of Parliament, every one of those years was valuable, important, and productive, so I come to this place as a minister from the perspective of great appreciation and respect for the work of parliamentarians. On an ongoing basis, parliamentarians make a difference in the lives of their constituents but also, as legislators, in the lives of all Canadians.

I really have great respect for the work of parliamentary committees, which is reflected by my 19th appearance, I believe, before a parliamentary committee in this incarnation as a minister. I hope I'm not overstaying my welcome with you, colleagues.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, just before we begin with questioning, Mr. Brison will be with us for approximately an hour.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I'm joined by my parliamentary secretary, Joyce Murray, today, whose work has been instrumental.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Following Minister Brison's appearance, we will be joined for approximately 30 minutes by officials from the PCO, and for those PCO officials who may be in the room, just a quick heads-up, I will be precluding any opening statements from PCO officials. All members of this committee have their opening statements in hand, so we'll go directly into a seven-minute round of questions to be able to get that portion of our meeting concluded on time.

With that, we'll start our questioning from colleagues.

Mr. Ayoub, you have seven minutes.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start by underlining, Mr. Pagan, that you don't have an Ottawa jersey on today.

[Brian Pagan, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management, Treasury Board Secretariat]

I'm sorry about that.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Minister Brison, my first question concerns the paylist requirements, or the $625 million under vote 30a. It's “funding for adjustments made to terms and conditions of service or employment of the federal administration.” You referred to it briefly in your opening statement. You said the requested funding would be used primarily to cover the cost of ratifying new collective agreements and a portion of the employer’s anticipated costs related to the 2016-17 fiscal year.

How has the government established the priority of engaging with the public sector unions in a positive way, as part of the new program and with the money that will be spent?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you. I appreciate your question.

When we were elected, we inherited a situation where not all federal public servants had a collective agreement. Therefore, we immediately started negotiating collective agreements with all the unions representing public servants. Today, 90% of public servants have a collective agreement. We're currently working on completing the negotiations with the others.

It's very important for us to show our respect for the public service. We have an exceptional public service in Canada. It serves the governments in a non-partisan and professional manner. We'll continue to make progress in the negotiations.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

To clarify, how many employees are affected? How many collective agreements have been ratified? How many still need to be ratified?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

We've ratified 18 agreements to date. We also have a

tentative agreement with a 19th group, reached recently, and we're awaiting ratification. We had anticipated the completion of these negotiations, and as such, we're anticipating this funding.

These agreements, negotiated over the last several months particularly, have come a long way in terms of restoring....

It's a priority for us to restore a culture of respect for our public service. I believe we've made a great deal of progress, but we still have a lot of work to do. We'll continue working closely with unions and public servants throughout the government.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

When you negotiate collective agreements, I suppose you make estimates to arrive at $625 million. Does this figure include retroactive salary amounts? How do you estimate the content of the collective agreements that still need to be signed, to arrive at $625 million?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

When we were elected, some public servants hadn't had a collective agreement in three years, in certain cases.

Is that correct, Mr. Pagan?

[Brian Pagan]

Yes.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

In some cases it was three years. As a result, there were large groups within the public service who had been without agreements for some time, so we undertook to negotiate.

You're not just negotiating from now on, you're actually negotiating going back to when the agreements had lapsed. There was retroactivity in many of the agreements reached, reaching back to when the agreements had actually lapsed.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I gather that this money could have or should have been included in the previous years' budgets. We're including the money in the budget now because the collective agreements will be signed soon.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

That's right. Brian can explain more granularly how the calculation is done.

[Brian Pagan]

Yes. Thank you for the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You have 40 seconds.

[Brian Pagan]

I'll answer very quickly.

It's simply a mathematical formula. We know the size of the public service. We know the number of agreements reached to this point. Therefore we're simply extrapolating and doing a forecast of what the amounts would be to cover the public service if the pattern holds.

Second, in terms of how this is funded, there was an operating budget freeze introduced in 2013 that covered a two-year period. Departments are responsible for the portion of the increase that covers that period. They have put money aside, and we're bringing it into these supplementary estimates (a). It's their money and they're going to be paying their bills. Moving forward, there is a central vote administered by the Treasury Board Secretariat that makes the departments whole for the costs going forward, for this agreement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. McCauley, you have seven minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Welcome back. It's always a pleasure, Minister, and Mr. Pagen. Poor Renée unfortunately gets shut out again from being able to comment on anything.

I tease your other colleague because she comes along and we never ask her any questions.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Well, you can change that.