Government Operations Committee on June 9th, 2020

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

In the complaints I receive about Phoenix or pay statements, people often do not understand why their pay statement fluctuates. They see that they owe money, but they do not know why; or that they are owed money, but they do not know why either, or starting on which date.

Do government employees have a guide to the codes used on their own pay slips that would help them to understand it? Does such a guide exist?

[Les Linklater]

Yes, we have a number of tools.

We have just developed and rolled out a tool called MyGCPay. Whether or not their department is served by the Pay Centre, it gives government employees an overview of their pay file: the rate of pay, pay raise anniversaries and union dues. This provides a picture of what should be in the pay file and, for those served by the Pay Centre, it also includes all transactions yet to be processed.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

All right.

When it comes to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much. Unfortunately, we're completely out of time.

We'll now go to Ms. Ashton.

Ms. Ashton, welcome to our committee. You have six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, on May 3, Mathias Colomb Cree Nation found out through the media that they would receive medical tents they never asked for, despite having asked to retrofit their youth centre for use during the pandemic. Chief Bighetty called this action paternalistic.

In a letter to federal officials, the director of their health program, Barbara Dumas-Hart wrote that the approach by the government “has impacted our community with negative ramifications resulting in disharmony and dysfunction.”

At a time when MCCN and all first nations in our region have been doing what they can to save lives, your government used MCCN and made things worse. Since then, we've seen the government attempt to use national security to shield everyone from the truth. Then we saw finger pointing between Indigenous Services and Public Services and Procurement.

Will your office take responsibility for this appalling treatment of Mathias Colomb Cree Nation? What steps has your department taken since this fiasco to ensure that first nations are listened to and not used?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

The national security exception was used as a result of a decision that we made to ensure that suppliers have the ability to provide the type of product. Indigenous businesses have the full support of the federal government, and we will work with them to increase access to future opportunities.

As for the issue you identified, we are working very hard to assess what happened in this particular case. We are working with Indigenous Services and with Minister Miller to identify exactly what occurred in the decision to send that supply up there. We will continue to ensure that we are respecting the concerns you are raising, and we take them very seriously.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you for that, but our concerns are quite extensive.

Minister, when my office looked into the contract for medical tents going to Pukatawagan, we noticed that it went to a company whose board chair sat on the COVID-19 supply council. It was former Liberal cabinet minister Cathy Bennett. When a journalist asked for comment on this, they were quickly told that Ms. Bennett resigned from her role on the supply council. Your office later informed us that she had also resigned from her role as board chair of Dynamic Air Shelters “out of an abundance of caution”.

Did you or anyone in your office ask former Liberal cabinet minister Cathy Bennett to resign, yes or no?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I want to start by saying that the supply council has no role in procurement at all.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

My question, Madam Minister, with all due respect, is about Ms. Bennett's resignation. It's not about the broader supply council.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Well, the supply council member you mentioned offered her resignation.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Okay, so were you or your office involved in asking her to do so, yes or no?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I was actually very surprised, as I was completely unaware of the conflict. We asked members to disclose any conflicts that they might have. This was a complete shock to me when I heard about it.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

In interviews with the media and in the letter to my office, you described the COVID-19 supply council as having no role in procurement. Your department's website says that one of the topics raised was the procurement of PPE. This doublespeak is misleading to Canadians. Procurement, as we know, means “acquisition”, not “supply”, and now we have an example of a supplier that benefited from a contract that was never asked for by a first nation.

Is the COVID-19 supply council, whose role is to advise the government on procurement, involved with procurement, yes or no?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

The answer is a straight-up no. The supply council has met twice. I've had advice from the supply council on things such as our supply hub, which we just launched today. It brings together buyers and sellers with resources that they're able to utilize. The absolute answer is that the supply council has no role in procurement whatsoever. We've been completely transparent about that role from the very beginning.

We put the minutes of our meetings on our website, and there you will see a readout from our last two meetings.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

We have, and they're quite sparse.

Ms. Bennett has had 12 government contracts since 2015. How is it that your office was not aware of how inappropriate it would be for her to be on the supply council?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

The disclosure that we asked members to make was to disclose any potential and existing conflicts. We put together a diverse range of members from across this country so that they could allow us to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Ashton, if you have another question later in the round, I just ask, for our interpreters, that you slow down the cadence of your speech slightly so that our interpreters have enough time to catch up to what you're saying and interpret the words correctly.

We'll now go to our five-minute rounds, starting with Mrs. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the minister for being here, as well as her departmental officials.

I believe we are going to be judged by how transparent and accountable we have been willing to be in managing this pandemic, so I'm grateful for the fact that we have the blues, the Hansard and the evidence from all these meetings so that Canadians can see how forthright or not forthright our ministers are willing to be when questions are put to them.

With that, I'll ask a question of Minister Anand.

During this committee's meeting last Friday, we passed a unanimous motion calling on your department to provide Canadians transparency by supplying this committee with documents related to the sole-source contracts for PPE.

Will you commit today to meeting the deadlines set out in that motion?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you so much. I appreciate the kind words at your opening, and I'm very pleased to be here also.

I will commit as much as I am able to meet those deadlines.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Minister, thank you very much for that.

I'm going to go back to the millions of substandard KN95 masks sold to your department by one supplier. I asked a question during last Thursday's COVID meeting and you responded that you were “negotiating a range of exits from this contract with the supplier”.

Is one of the elements being negotiated the reimbursement of funds already prepaid to the company for these substandard masks?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for the question.

I do remember the interchange last week.

We are working very hard to ensure that we put Canada in the best position possible in terms of this contract. We've suspended further shipments of KN95 masks from this supplier. We're not paying for masks that we can't use.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Then is one of the elements being negotiated the reimbursement of funds already prepaid for masks that will never be delivered?

Is that an element that you're negotiating right now, being reimbursed for masks that we will never receive?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

As I mentioned, we want to make sure that Canada is in the best position possible. That is one of the options that we are discussing, but I want to be very clear that I'm very hesitant to provide the precise negotiation information, because this contract is sensitive and I want to make sure that we maintain Canada's position in the negotiation.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK]

Sure. You want to ensure that we have a strong position in order to extricate ourselves out of a contract that we are in.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Exactly.