Evidence of meeting #24 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Angela Crandall
Greg Thomson  Director of Research, Charity Intelligence Canada
Kate Bahen  Managing Director, Charity Intelligence Canada
Gail Picco  Editor in Chief, The Charity Report

August 13th, 2020 / 3 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Colleagues, thank you very much for being here. It's good to see all of you virtually. I hope you've been having a good summer.

Today's meeting will only last approximately 90 minutes. We had originally scheduled the President of the Treasury Board to be with us today, but he informed us a few days ago that he was unavailable for today's meeting, so I have scheduled him for next Thursday for the full two hours.

Today's meeting will be somewhat truncated. We have a couple of witnesses, but I do not believe we will need the entire 90 minutes. We'll probably go through one complete round of questions with our witnesses and then I'll take about five minutes at the end of the meeting for some very brief committee business. Hopefully that meets the approval of everyone on this committee.

To our witnesses, you've probably received these instructions before but in case you have not, when you are speaking, please make sure that if you're speaking in English you are on the English channel. For those witnesses who may want to alternate between English and French, I suggest that if you start a statement or answer a question in one of the two official languages, complete your statement, question or answer in that official language. Please do not switch back and forth between French and English, because that causes problems for our technicians. I also ask that you speak slowly and clearly so that our interpreters can hear your statements and we are able to give proper interpretation.

Angela, I do not have, at this point, the speaking order of our witnesses. I wonder if you could introduce our three witnesses. My understanding is that each one of them will have a brief, five-minute opening statement. If you can inform me which of our witnesses is first, I will introduce that witness and then we'll commence.

Colleagues, we'll have our normal rounds of questioning, which will be six minutes for the first round, five minutes for the second round and then two and a half minutes for the last round.

Angela, who is our first witness?

3 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Angela Crandall

It's Mr. Greg Thomson of Charity Intelligence Canada. He's accompanied by Ms. Kate Bahen. Mr. Thomson will start.

3 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you.

Mr. Thomson, the floor is yours.

3 p.m.

Greg Thomson Director of Research, Charity Intelligence Canada

Thank you very much. Good afternoon.

My name is Greg Thomson. I'm the director of research for Charity Intelligence Canada. Charity Intelligence is itself a charity, one that analyzes Canadian charities to help donors be informed and give intelligently. Our website hosts free reports on more than 780 Canadian charities, and provides insight into specific giving areas, such as the environment, cancer and homelessness. Last year, 314,000 Canadian donors used our website for information on Canadian charities, reading over 1.3 million charity reports. We estimate that our research helped inform and influence $95 million in Canadian charitable giving last year alone.

Just as democracy depends on informed citizens, the fundamental health of philanthropy rests on well-informed donors. Our own research supports this case. In surveys of donors who have used our resources, 77% said that Charity Intelligence reports have improved their confidence in giving to charities and have inspired these donors to give 32% more money to charities.

Over the past few weeks, a significant amount of information has been reported about WE Charity. CI has focused our analysis and remarks on WE's financial position, how it spends its money, the results it achieves and its governance issues. We report fairly and consistently based on our analysis of hundreds of Canadian charities. We do not let unsubstantiated allegations impact our ratings, as we strive to remove subjectivity and report on objective measures.

At Charity Intelligence we are analysts, not auditors. As well, we are analysts of charities, not government programs. Our specialty is looking at how charities spend money and what impact their programs achieve. It's within this context that CI presents to the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates today.

With that, I'll pass it over to Kate Bahen.

3 p.m.

Kate Bahen Managing Director, Charity Intelligence Canada

Hi. I'm sorry, but I'm having technical difficulties here. My computer has a glitch, so I will have to do my opening comments from scratch.

My name is Kate Bahen. I'm a managing director at Charity Intelligence. I did the updates on WE Charity's report in August of 2019 and more recently in this July of 2020. I'm happy to take your questions about that.

I would like to use these moments to talk to you about what is going on in the charity sector. One of the greatest concerns is how charities are so negatively impacted by COVID-19. Imagine Canada estimates that individual giving to charities will be down by between $4 billion to $6 billion. For context, in 2019, individual giving was about $17 billion.

On top of this, we have the WE situation that is in the headlines every day and is really shaking donor confidence in giving to charities. The impact of this, we won't know.

I appreciate that part of the Canada summer students grant initiative was to help charities and that students would be volunteering and giving their time to help front-line charities at this time. For many charities, volunteers are an incredibly important part of program delivery, but what charities really need now is cash. We're in August, and so far there has been so little response to the needs of Canadian charities.

There is one simple thing that we at Charity Intelligence believe could significantly help Canadian charities, and that's called the disbursement quota. The disbursement quota is a little-known factor about how much foundations, community foundations and endowments are required to give of their assets to charities each year.

Currently, Canada's disbursement quota is 3.5%. Canada has the lowest disbursement quota in the world. In the U.S., the disbursement quota is 5% and there are calls right now in the U.S. for raising that disbursement quota to 10% for the COVID pandemic.

If Canadian foundations, endowments and community foundations were to increase the disbursement quota from 3.5% to 5%, we estimate that there would be an additional $700 million going to charities this year. It is completely at our finance minister's discretion. It is written within the CRA regulations that the finance minister can change the disbursement quota by the stroke of his pen, and I ask all of you, from all parties, to go back to caucus and talk to your parties about what we can do to help Canadian charities for the COVID pandemic. I ask you to seriously consider raising Canada's disbursement quota to 5%—at least—for the COVID pandemic.

Thank you.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you.

Angela, do we have another speaker or have we concluded our opening comments?

3:05 p.m.

The Clerk

We have Gail Picco from The Charity Report.

3:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you very much.

Ms. Picco, the floor is yours. You may have to unmute your microphone. That's perfect. We can hear you now.

3:05 p.m.

Gail Picco Editor in Chief, The Charity Report

Great. Thank you, sir.

Thanks for the invitation to appear in front of you today and for giving me the opportunity to make this statement.

I'm not specifically sure why I was asked to appear, but I'll share with you some of my background in the charity sector.

I've worked for 35 years in the sector, starting with an eight-year stint as a counsellor in a shelter for abused women. During the past 25 years, I've worked as a consultant to over 100 charities, advising them on fundraising and governance, impact and relevance, accountability and transparency. For the past 10 years, I've written widely about the charity sector. My 2017 book was called Cap in Hand, and my forthcoming book, Disconnect: Charity's role in the Age of Inequality is due out on November 15. I'm currently the editor of The Charity Report, an independent news source for the charity sector.

I have three main points to cover in my statement specifically related to the government's partnership with WE.

The first is the question of whether WE was the only group with the capacity to execute the CSSG. I believe that this conclusion is not an unreasonable one. The government had already had some success in getting COVID relief delivered through partnerships with charities. In April, it gave $100 million to five national food security charities for emergency food relief. Shortly after, three national charities were tapped to channel $350 million to vulnerable communities through the emergency community support fund.

However, students, as a group, are a difficult cohort to reach. WE had student engagement, youth engagement, as its mission, with connections to 15,000 schools across the country. I believe that, at the time, that would have been seen as a plus as post-secondary students, particularly in racialized neighbourhoods, remain connected with their high schools.

The organization was also able to showcase its reach. Young people filled sports stadiums in 15 cities around the globe for annual WE Days. WE ambassadors were A-listers from the world of entertainment, politics, civil society and the corporate world. They were supported by everybody who mattered. Board members of WE included senior bank executives from Scotiabank and RBC, sophisticated people with long resumés.

Additionally, WE's finances, governance and unique structure were independently and favourably reviewed by two of the most well-known law firms in the country, Torys LLP and Miller Thompson, as well as by former Supreme Court Justice Peter Cory.

All three founders of the organization had been awarded the Order of Canada. Additionally, Craig Kielburger had received 13 honorary degrees and doctorates. Marc Kielburger was selected by the World Economic Forum as one of the 250 global leaders. Roxanne Joyal, a Rhodes scholar, clerked for the Supreme Court of Canada and also received an honorary doctorate.

In 2018, the charity had 380 full-time staff and a budget of about $48 million. To anybody from the outside evaluating WE, its qualifications would appear to have been unique and unassailable. In fact, the organization was able to generate 35,000 applications from across the country in nine days—35,000 young people whose stories have been lost now and whose hopes are on hold.

The second point that I want to make is around the idea that charities don't spend money on speakers or entertainment for fundraising events. Nothing could be further from the truth. While charities try to get speakers and entertainment—or anything they can—donated for an event, entertainment is typically part of an event budget.

In 2002, the Hadassah-WIZO children's charity paid former U.S. president Bill Clinton $100,000 to speak at a sold-out fundraising dinner in Toronto. Also, the late socialite and philanthropist Anna Maria de Souza most certainly paid the 70 Brazilian dancers she flew in from Rio de Janeiro for the iconic Brazilian Ball in Toronto, which at its peak in 2010 raised $7 million in one evening and which, according to Toronto Life magazine, “Everyone who was anyone in the world of politics, business or media attended.”

The reason charities pay for speakers and entertainment is that there's a lot at stake. The days of the lemonade stand are over. Every year in Canada charities raise more than $20 billion from fundraising activities, and they spend several billion dollars in order to accomplish that.

Yet, even with that amount of money, all three levels of government are still the primary source of funds for charity. In 2017, governments supplied 70% of the $280 billion that flowed to the charity sector, which leads me to my third and final point.

The charity sector is the primary means through which government executes health care and social service priorities. The sector employs two million people on a full-time basis and two million people on a part-time basis. Every day, millions of people rely on the services provided by charity, and as a consequence of the COVID pandemic, more people are becoming reliant on charity, not fewer.

In a world full of uncertainty, Canadians are suffering through the worst crisis in modern history. Their lives have been turned upside down. Many don't know how they're going to manage. The anxiety is making some Canadians sick. Others are becoming hopeless about the future. The situation is dire.

At the same time, the people who have been elected to help Canadians, through the good times and the bad, some of whom are now serving as the loyal opposition, have created a crisis of their own by transforming the weaknesses of one charity into a vehicle for an intractable partisan battle that is currently taking up the agenda of three parliamentary committees, including this one.

The charity sector is flawed and needs to work on many problems, such as better governance, inequity, and systemic racism, yet the increasingly partisan behaviour coming out of the House of Commons is like that of a herd of bulls in a china shop, destroying everything in its path as it reaches for the most expensive piece of china on the top shelf, presumably a snap election that could potentially defeat the current government.

You've invited me here to speak to you. My recommendation to you now is that you snap out of it, because the broken glass on the floor of that china shop is the collateral damage being inflicted on the charity sector, its employees, and the growing number of people the sector is trying to serve. As a citizen and someone who has worked all of her professional life to address the needs of the most vulnerable people in society, I cannot overstate how deeply disturbing I find this agenda.

I'm happy to take your questions.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you very much. We'll now go into our six-minute round of questions, starting with Mr. Aboultaif.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

I didn't expect to hear a political speech from Ms. Picco, but I have to go to Mr. Thomson, and ask the following question. Is there usually scrutiny of charities to respect official languages?

3:15 p.m.

Director of Research, Charity Intelligence Canada

Greg Thomson

Is there typically scrutiny of any that do not respect official languages. Is that your question?

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Yes, I'm asking about official languages. Is there usually a scrutiny of charities to respect Canada's Official Languages Act?

3:15 p.m.

Director of Research, Charity Intelligence Canada

Greg Thomson

It would depend upon which jurisdiction they're working in. Certainly, for a charity working nationally, you would expect that it would have the ability to operate in both official languages.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

That's fantastic. You've answered part of my next question.

If an organization or a charity were to take on a project nationwide, that organization would need to respect the Official Languages Act. Is that correct?

3:15 p.m.

Director of Research, Charity Intelligence Canada

Greg Thomson

I do not know the law on that. WE Charity did have some French-speaking folks on their payroll. I understand that some of them may have been let go, but that's all under review right now.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Why then would the We Charity hire a Quebec organization to take on the operation if they have the capacity?

3:15 p.m.

Director of Research, Charity Intelligence Canada

Greg Thomson

I believe that WE was weak in Quebec. They had an office there for about a year. I believe they closed their office in Montreal down in February. It was not an area of strength for them in the country, certainly.

However, they also reported that they were going to hire PR firms in other jurisdictions to help them as well with the program.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

That means they don't have the infrastructure to run a program in Quebec or in French-speaking cities in Canada.

3:15 p.m.

Director of Research, Charity Intelligence Canada

Greg Thomson

From what we can see, they were somewhat weaker in Quebec, certainly. That's all that we know.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

If they are weak in Quebec and in the French language, they must be weak elsewhere, where the Acadian community is quite established.

Do you agree with that statement?

3:15 p.m.

Director of Research, Charity Intelligence Canada

Greg Thomson

I'm not sure I can necessarily say that they must be.... No.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

Okay.

Are you aware of organizations in Quebec that would be able to take on a project that WE was going to take on, and with full capacity there be able to deliver the program properly?

3:15 p.m.

Director of Research, Charity Intelligence Canada

Greg Thomson

All we know is that they were going to be hiring a firm, National, to operate their program throughout Quebec.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB

If you can assist me.... I'm not interested in naming names. You don't have to name organizations.

How many organizations are you aware of that you think would be capable of handling the same WE project in Quebec?