Evidence of meeting #5 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was digital.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Paul Cardegna
Francis Bilodeau  Acting Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Sarah Paquet  Executive Vice-President, Shared Services Canada
Denis Bombardier  Chief Financial Officer, Shared Services Canada
Bill Matthews  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
André Fillion  Assistant Deputy Minister, Defence and Marine Procurement, Acquisitions Program, Department of Public Works and Government Services

10:10 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Bill Matthews

There is a budgeting process for departments. Most budgets are regularly included in the Main Estimates, but other budgets follow a different process that involves adjusting the numbers throughout the year.

That is the case here. Every year we do an audit to outline the actual costs and we use the supplementary estimates to increase the department's resources.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you very much.

Mr. Green, you have six minutes.

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

How many public servants have experienced data errors caused by the Phoenix pay system in the fiscal year 2018-19, and how does that compare with the previous year, 2016-17, during the time the Phoenix system was implemented.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

Our system and our process tracks transactions as opposed to the precise number of individuals. When we have an issue relating to a pay problem, it's on a transaction-by-transaction basis. We're aiming to focus on those transactions and reduce the backlog.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

As of today, how many pay transactions for PSPC employees need to be processed?

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

Bill, do you want to speak to PSPC?

10:15 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Bill Matthews

Certainly.

In terms of PSPC's complement as a department, we are now—like all departments—on the pod system, so a pod is used to process our transactions.

Since last year when we put in the pod, we have achieved a reduction of about 30% in PSPC's statistics. I believe we are now at about 45,000 transactions that are part of the backlog and that's down 33% over the previous year.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

How many of them are having significant financial impact versus collective agreement renewals? Because I can assure you that for public service workers who have a delayed payment, who still have mortgages and bills to pay, this is creating a significant burden, as I am sure you are well aware.

I am wondering if you are tracking the scale of the significance of the financial impact on the workers.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

Again, in my opening statement I wanted to stress the importance of the Phoenix pay system to me personally and to my ministry. It is the top priority for me, given the stress and the hardship that families have had to endure as a result of the issues that have arisen.

To answer or address your question, we have reduced the backlog of transactions—

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Sorry, specifically it's a very important question about the scale and the significant nature of the financial impact.

I understand you're not tracking individuals; you're tracking transactions. What would be the order of magnitude that would make a transaction significant enough for you to note?

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but we have been able to reduce our backlog of transactions with financial implications by 52%. Various types of issues relate to the Phoenix pay system, all of which in my view would cause stress. Whether it's parental leave, disability leave, student pay, collective agreement implementation, I don't see a threshold that is too small to cross.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

That is a fair and seemingly honest statement.

Have you settled compensation for all employees affected by Phoenix?

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

We are in the process of—

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

So the answer is no, you have not.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

We are in the process of working very hard to ensure that all problems associated with Phoenix, regardless of how they arose or what they relate to, are settled.

As I said, it's a very large priority for me, as the minister.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

What kinds of supports do you offer employees who have these pay issues?

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

Employee wellness is a very important issue for us.

Are you speaking about employees who are operating and working in pay centres, or are you speaking about employees who are, let's say—

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Those who are impacted by Phoenix, the ones who have significant financial burden. I know you've suggested there is a range of them and that they're all burdens, but I would suggest that some are probably more acute than others.

What supports do you have in place for people who are facing significant financial burdens?

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

What we have done is put a priority on certain types of pay issues. We've ensured that public servants facing problems can request emergency payments. We've put in place a new claims process for current and former employees to request compensation for financial costs and lost income. We've focused on priority files: parental leave, disability leave, student pay, collective agreement implementation.

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

How have you focused on those files?

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

For that in particular I will turn it over to my—

10:15 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Perhaps I can actually add on to that. How are you addressing those acute priority files, because I called it “financially significant” and you called it “priorities”? However, I'm glad to see that there is a designation for it.

Do those get the expedited compensation? Because my concern, is that if you have processes in place for which people can apply, that does not equate to their actual compensation.

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

Just before handing it over to Bill, yes, we actually put a priority on that and, largely, through the pay pod model, which we have seen work very well. This is an innovation that came out of the Miramichi pay centre.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

What is the turnaround on that? I file a claim. I am in really dire financial need. How long can I expect it will be before I get compensated?

10:20 a.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

Can I turn it over to my deputy for those precise details?