Evidence of meeting #10 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was digital.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marc Brouillard  Acting Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Paul Glover  President, Shared Services Canada
Samantha Hazen  Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Chief Financial Officer Branch, Shared Services Canada
Jean-Yves Duclos  President of the Treasury Board
Kathleen Owens  Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
Karen Cahill  Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Glenn Purves  Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Paul Cardegna

8:15 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you very much. Two and a half minutes of speaking time is short, but I'll take it.

Minister, you know as well as I do that the melting glaciers and the thawing permafrost, among other phenomena, could lead to other problems with respect to the bacteria and viruses we will have to cope with.

In our budget forecasts, whether in the current supplementary estimates or others to come, are there funds set aside for research into bacteria which, while for the time being are contained in our natural freezers, could escape fairly quickly? Are funds set aside for preventive research?

8:20 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

Thank you very much, Ms. Vignola.

That's definitely a lesson we learned during the pandemic. We have also begun to make the most of it and will certainly keep that in mind over the coming months and years. What I'm talking about here is the importance of being prepared for all health eventualities. Unfortunately, other pandemics like this one are likely to occur in the future, and we need to be even better prepared. We must have the capacity to develop and produce vaccines and to have any other technologies that will help us protect everyone. We need to protect the human, physical, and economic health of our country.

8:20 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you, Mr. Duclos.

One of the roles of the Treasury Board Secretariat is to monitor expenditures. How will the monitoring of COVID-19-related expenditures differ from the usual monitoring of main estimates and supplementary estimates?

November 30th, 2020 / 8:20 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

That's an excellent question. You can find part of the answer by looking at how the various expenditures are listed in the estimates. Most expenditures focus on managing the health crisis and the economic crisis. That's precisely what needs to be done. We're in a crisis, and so we need to be disciplined and to focus our energies in order to get through it, while remaining as strong and united as possible.

8:20 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you.

Mr. Duclos, I'd like to speak briefly about the WE Charity.

You pointed out that somewhere between having documents translated and being able to offer services in French, there was a whole universe. You were told that WE was dealing with nine school boards. Anyone who has ever worked in education knows that there are 72 school boards in Quebec, 57 of which are francophone and 9 anglophone. The others are rather different...

8:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Excuse me, Ms. Vignola, but I must interrupt you.

8:20 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

All right.

8:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Thank you very much. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Mr. Green for two and a half minutes.

8:20 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to pick up on Mr. McCauley's question about this idea of authorization. Maybe this has been covered and I missed it, but the PBO noted that the government introduced several bills to authorize spending for COVID-19 related measures and therefore did not seek authorities from the usual supplementary estimates process. Ms. Vignola put this question previously, but, specifically as it relates to authorization, how did that legislation change the way in which government bills were put through the TBS for review?

8:20 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

There are two things. First, I hear there is some confusion around how departments and the Treasury Board work together in managing and implementing programs. Second, I feel that members of this committee deserve the clearest possible answer, so, if you would like, I can ask the secretariat to provide you with a simple, short answer that will summarize what my official, Madam Owens, said very clearly just a moment ago, so that—

8:20 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Okay, we can do that now. Thank you.

8:20 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

I'll ask Madam Owens to repeat what she said earlier.

8:20 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

If that is the only answer...I thought we might get greater clarity.

On Ms. Vignola's points—I believe she was cut off—but the question was, can you provide the committee with a complete list in writing of all the COVID-19 related measures that have been announced to date, and can the TBS provide the committee with a breakdown of the planned spending for fiscal year 2020-21 for each of those COVID-19 related measures announced today?

8:20 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

Even better, you'll find that on the open government portal's website, which lists over 300 such files and investments.

8:20 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

I would love you to summarize it, sir. As much as I would love to go through the open government site....

8:20 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

You type "open government portal" and you'll find it easily. Otherwise, you can of course write to me on my P9, and I'll send you the direct web link.

GC InfoBase is where the totality of the financial information you're seeking is available. In fact, there is a specific page on all of the COVID-19 specific measures. Obviously, today's fall economic statements come with a lot of other details covering all sorts of different ways, which I suspect you will want to use. Again, if you would like further guidance from the Treasury Board Secretariat, they will be happy to do that.

8:25 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

That was a masterful session in your responses, Mr. Minister. Thank you.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Thank you, Mr. Green.

We will now go to Mr. Paul-Hus for five minutes.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, there would appear to be a small trend among Liberals with respect to French. As you know, Ms. Lambropoulos gave us a sample of it when she said there was no decline in French in Montreal. Furthermore, we saw that Ms. Chagger did not consider it necessary to comply with the guidelines from Treasury Board, for which you are responsible. Indeed, it is up to the Treasury Board to apply them. However, the minister deemed that it was not important to conduct an official languages impact assessment for the WE Charity.

How could you, as the President of the Treasury Board, accept such a situation?

8:25 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

First of all, Mr. Paul-Hus, you and I, like quite a few of the people watching us on screen, are proud francophones and proud Quebeckers. We take pride in our language and our culture. This is also true for other francophones outside Quebec. We will always be there to defend the French language. This means that we must always make an effort to ensure that when we have a role to play, we support the diversity and the linguistic duality of our country. That is what I will always do.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

You're not answering my question. The fact that you, as the President of the Treasury Board, can speak English and French, is of no importance. And yet, during your term as President of the Treasury Board, one of the Treasury Board directives was not complied with. It doesn't matter whether the person at issue is Ms. Chagger or someone else, but what I want to know is how you could accept that your guidelines were not being followed. As you are also the vice-chair of the Cabinet Committee on COVID-19, you no doubt have burdensome responsibilities with tentacles everywhere, but at the end of the line, you remain responsible.

Do you consider that Ms. Chagger failed in her task?

8:25 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

The primary responsibility of the Treasury Board Secretariat officials I have had the opportunity to meet and with whom I work regularly are is to ensue that the departments and ministers in question have the necessary powers and authority.

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Mr. Duclos, as a francophone...

8:25 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

In this instance, it was determined by senior officials that this was the case. They are therefore responsible for…

8:25 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Paul-Hus Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

So you're saying that the senior officials were at fault. It was the senior officials of the Government of Canada who felt it wasn't important to comply with a Treasury Board directive on official languages.