Government Operations Committee on Nov. 30th, 2020

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Mr. Paul-Hus.

In fact, the supplementary estimates (B) 2020-21, which you have in hand, include two items pertaining to vaccines and spending on drugs. On the one hand, there is an amount of $3.8 billion, which is a non-budgetary appropriation. It is therefore an amount already approved by Parliament. There is also a $5.4-billion amount which requires approval by the House of Commons and the Senate, which is also for spending on the development and supply of vaccines and drugs.

As you can see, these are substantial amounts. They align very well with this remarkably ambitious program—

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

That's just political verbiage, Mr. Minister. Why can't we know the details?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Excuse me, but your speaking time is up.

Thank you, Mr. Duclos and Mr. Paul-Hus.

We will go to Mr. Drouin for six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses here today.

I would also like to thank my colleague, Minister Duclos, for being here with us again. We saw one another not so long ago.

Before going into greater depth on an issue that I believe is very important, I'd like to speak about the French language, in response to Mr. Paul-Hus's questions.

Mr. Duclos, I would like you to confirm something. Is the Treasury Board required to determine whether official languages have been complied with every time the Government of Canada launches a program? I believe I heard your colleague say that it was rather the authorities in each department who were required to ensure that both official languages were complied with when creating programs.

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin

There are indeed two obligations. On the one hand, the Treasury Board Secretariat has an obligation to provide clear guidance on procedures to be followed to implement programs that are consistent with Canada's linguistic duality and diversity. After that, the departments and ministers concerned have an obligation to apply these guidelines when implementing their programs.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much for your answer.

So the Treasury Board establishes the rules and gives guidance, but it is not always the Treasury Board that decides whether or not these rules have been properly applied. Needless to say, we expect departments to comply with the rules.

I have a question about the Centre for Regulatory Innovation.

We spoke today about the fall economic statement. I recall that the 2018 fall economic statement mentioned the establishment of a centre for regulatory intervention. In fact, our committee was getting ready, before the COVID-19 pandemic, to study how to reduce bureaucracy in government, to enable businesses to deal with government more quickly without so much red tape.

Could you give us some information about the Centre for Regulatory Innovation?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

That's a good question, and I'm very pleased that you are taking an interest in it, not only as an MP with a lot of experience in business development, but also as a committee member.

The creation of the Centre for Regulatory Innovation was announced two years ago in the 2018 fall economic statement. The centre was launched recently and is doing very well. Its role is to make the public service innovative and creative in regulatory matters, by streamlining procedures, particularly for small businesses, which need us to adapt regulations to address their needs and concerns.

At this very moment, the departments taking part in this project, which have the centre's support, are testing new ways of designing and implementing regulations. Everyone benefits. It makes it easier for the public service and businesses, especially small businesses, to grow, develop and serve the country.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much.

It's a pleasure to be here representing a large agricultural riding. People often speak to me about farming and the Food Inspection Agency, and some of the barriers that people can encounter when they are required to make sure that food in the Canadian market is safe.

How can we refer stakeholders to the Centre for Regulatory Innovation? Is it an internal process? Are stakeholders outside the government encouraged to do business with this new centre?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Both are possible. Stakeholders can deal directly with MPs like you, who are doing a very good job. They can also contact the External Advisory Committee on Regulatory Competitiveness. This very reliable committee will give them information about how to use regulations to become more competitive and modern in Canada. The committee has been in place since May 2019 and it has already facilitated considerable progress in terms of the revision of regulations throughout the Canadian government. Not only does it have scientists and experts in consumer, health, and environmental protection, but also businesspeople. It's an extraordinarily solid committee. I would encourage you to contact its members. Information is available at the Treasury Board Secretariat's website.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I would like to explore this further, Minister.

My understanding is that it's not a strictly internal committee, but rather one that interacts with other departments. We often hear people talk about red tape between departments, but there is also sometimes red tape between external stakeholders and the government. The Centre for Regulatory Innovation Is therefore looking for new solutions to make their dealings with government smoother.

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

That explains it very well, Mr. Drouin. I could not do better myself.

I would also like to thank you not only for what you say, but for what you do and for your vision. I am sure that your vision inspires many of your colleagues on the committee.

So thanks for your comments and for doing your work so well.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Minister, I think that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Excuse me—

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. My time is up.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, and thank you, Minister.

We will now go to Ms. Vignola for six minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Hello, Mr. Duclos.

We're also in the same riding. We could just about start calling ourselves the Quebec committee rather than the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

Mr. Duclos, we've spent a lot of money to reserve vaccine doses that will come from abroad. In April, we announced with considerable fanfare that we were spending money on research into a COVID-19 vaccine.There were investments in some Canadian companies, including one in which we share ownership, Medicago. It took several months before the grants were received, but they did eventually come in.

Of the amounts in the supplementary estimates that remain to be approved, which are for Canadian pharmaceutical companies to develop a vaccine?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

Thank you very much, Ms. Vignola.

Mr. Paul-Hus and Ms. Vignola, I'm very pleased to see you on screen.This is really nice. And in fact, all three of us are neighbours.

You're quite right to point out how proud we are to have Medicago facilities in our region. It's now in my riding, but it will soon have a presence in yours too.

Medicago is a story of success and pride. It received more than $170 million from the Canadian government over the past few weeks, as the first Canadian company to be developing a vaccine here in Canada. It's a source of considerable pride in Quebec City and in the province of Quebec. We take pride in supporting its considerable efforts in health, not only to develop but also produce a vaccine for 38 million Canadians.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you Mr. Duclos.

Nevertheless, I'd like to know how much from the supplementary estimates will go towards this research, whether with Medicago or another Canadian pharmaceutical company. Has an amount been set aside for our pharmaceutical companies?

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

The reason we can say that we're talking about our companies, is that we're injecting $170 million in your riding and mine. That's certainly remarkable. I'm perhaps being somewhat chauvinistic, but I'm unaware of regions other than yours and mine combined that have received as much support from the Canadian government in such an important set of circumstances. We're talking about people's health and lives and, down the line, economic health. It's extraordinarily important for the Quebec City region, for Quebec as a whole, and indeed for the whole country. We're reinvesting in the capacity to develop and produce extremely innovative vaccines.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

I would like...

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

In all, we're investing approximately $10 billion for the supply, development, transportation, storage and administration of vaccines over the coming months.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We're now talking about vaccines from abroad, but also from Quebec. I believe that a Calgary or a Vancouver company also received grants in April. We therefore have what it takes in Canada to lend a hand.

I'd like to discuss another matter.

In your statement, you said that eight organizations were asking for over $500 million each. For the Treasury Board Secretariat, it was $646.6 million. This amount includes $20 million for the initiative to upgrade applications. Approximately the same amount has been requested for negotiated wage settlements. Once again, nearly that amount is allocated to the stabilization of the Phoenix pay system.

Why were these expenditures not foreseeable enough to include in the main estimates, thus requiring us to put them in the supplementary estimates now?

The stabilization of the Phoenix pay system is certainly nothing new. As for the negotiated wage settlements, they should have been expected because they were negotiated.

[Jean-Yves Duclos]

This can be explained by another success story. Over the past few months, we succeeded in signing solid agreements with many unions that were respectful not only the public service, but to the capacity of Canadians to pay for government services. This, in large part, explains why these items are appearing now.

I will now ask Ms. Hassan or Ms. Cahill To give you further details, since you want to be well informed.

[Karen Cahill, Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat]

I can answer this question, Minister.

I'd like to thank the MP for her question.

In short, it's a question of dates. When the main estimates were being prepared, these items had not yet been approved. The collective agreements had been neither signed nor negotiated. So the reasons are simply the result of timing. That's why they are in the supplementary estimates (B) 2020-2021.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

You mentioned, Mr. Duclos, that you like clarity and simplicity. All kinds of measures have been implemented since mid-March to deal with an altogether exceptional situation. As a parliamentarian, but also as citizen, I'd like to have a table with three columns showing a list of the measures taken to deal with COVID-19, the expenditures thus far for each of these measures, and the expenditures expected for these measures. In other words, I would like to see what we are doing, how much it costs and how much it's going to cost.

Is it possible to get these figures? How much time would it take to come up with a simple table like that?