Evidence of meeting #10 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was digital.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marc Brouillard  Acting Chief Information Officer of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat
Paul Glover  President, Shared Services Canada
Samantha Hazen  Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Chief Financial Officer Branch, Shared Services Canada
Jean-Yves Duclos  President of the Treasury Board
Kathleen Owens  Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
Karen Cahill  Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Glenn Purves  Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Paul Cardegna

8:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat

Glenn Purves

I'll turn this over to Karen Cahill, who would be the best person to answer this question, Mr. Green.

8:05 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Thank you. Thanks for your answers as well, Glenn.

All the best over the holidays.

November 30th, 2020 / 8:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat

Karen Cahill

To date, we have 1,021 people who have put their claims forward. The average amount is about $53,000 per claim.

8:05 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Do you expect an additional request of funding for this settlement?

8:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat

Karen Cahill

No, we don't expect any additional funding for this settlement at this point.

Thank you.

8:05 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Is there a cut-off date for future claims?

8:05 p.m.

Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat

Karen Cahill

No, there are no cut-off dates for future claims. It's been left open in terms of putting forward claims from former RCMP members.

8:05 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Thank you very much.

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Thank you, Mr. Green.

We are finished the first round.

We will now go to the second round.

For five minutes, Mr. McCauley.

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Thanks, Mr. Chair and witnesses. Minister, welcome back.

Minister, I want to go back to the official languages impact analysis . On your own website, it states that an impact analysis is required if you answer “yes” to any of these questions, such as “Is your submission seeking the Treasury Board's approval for a new service or program?”—the answer would be “yes” for WE—and “Is your submission seeking Treasury Board's approval toward a grant or contribution to a non-government organization?”—the answer would again be “yes”. They would have had to do an official languages analysis.

It sounded like you were trying to pass off the responsibility for this to Minister Chagger when it says right on your own website, regarding the responsibilities of Treasury Board, that the program analysis ensures that the official languages appendix has been completed. It's in your department's responsibility, but it was not done. You say that it's someone else's responsibility, when your own website states that program analysis ensures that the official languages appendix has been completed. They review the official languages impact analysis if it's required to provide one. Your own rules say one was required, yet you approved this money without it being done. Can you tell us why?

8:05 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

Thank you for the question, which I effectively answered in French earlier, but since we are a bilingual country—

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Answer.... Your department is required to do—

8:05 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

—I will answer in English as well.

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Your department is required to ensure that it's done. To meet the minimum standards requiring that it be done, under Treasury Board guidelines, it was required to be done. Under Treasury Board guidelines, your department has to ensure that the official languages appendix has been completed, yet you didn't. Why?

8:05 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

I provided an answer to that earlier.

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

No, you did not. Why did you not ensure that it was completed?

8:05 p.m.

Liberal

Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I'm having a hard time hearing both the question and the answer.

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

That's true, Mr. Drouin.

8:05 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

I'm very happy to provide you an answer, but I need just a little time, not too long—you'll see.

In fact, your colleague MP Drouin, who just spoke, also provided the appropriate answer. Treasury Board provides guidelines so that responsible ministers do their jobs. The secretariat assessed that the authority that the minister in question required was available to that minister and, therefore, the minister could and had to implement that according to those guidelines.

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Minister, your own website states that your department ensures that the official languages appendix has been completed. It was not completed. Your department, according to your own website, states that you're responsible to ensure that it is completed if it's required. It was required and your department did not ensure it was completed. Why did the Treasury Board violate its own rules for ensuring that the official languages impact analysis was completed?

8:10 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

I think you deserve a—

8:10 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Was it because this was done specially for WE, and just rushed through? What other rules were overlooked in this?

8:10 p.m.

President of the Treasury Board

Jean-Yves Duclos

I believe you and members of the committee deserve an honest and clear answer. To avoid confusion, I would therefore invite Madam Owens to again state the way in which that operates.

8:10 p.m.

Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat

Kathleen Owens

I'm happy to answer. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.

In the case of the WE contribution agreement, it did not come to the Treasury Board because it was determined that the program was within the minister's authorities. Mr. McCauley, in the guidelines you're referring to, the appendix referred to submissions to the Treasury Board. That is what the guidelines require, to accompany a submission.

8:10 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

You're saying that the WE money didn't go through Treasury Board at all. It surpassed Treasury Board. It was approved on its own without Treasury Board approval.