Government Operations Committee on May 10th, 2021

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Do you have any data on the federal public servants who have contracted COVID-19? I have heard that about 8,000 public servants may have contracted it. That may not be the right number.

Do you have the information? If so, does the number of cases vary from one organization to another or is it similar across the board?

Have more people contracted the virus in certain departments, either because they are working on site or for other reasons?

I am guessing that you don't have the data at hand.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Thank you for the question.

I have the overall data, but I do not have the data for each department.

Clearly, from the outset, the key principles of our office, as the largest employer, were to take measures to avoid contributing to the spread of the virus and to ensure the safety of our employees.

As of April 29, 2021, 4,581 employees had contracted COVID-19. Let me be clear that this number is cumulative. It is not the number of people who had it on April 29, but rather the number of people who had contracted it since the beginning of the pandemic.

As for the second part of your question, we will have to take a look and provide an answer to the committee later.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Looking at the numbers by department, is it possible to determine whether the infection rate was higher among workers who had to stay on site, such as customs employees, than among those who have been teleworking since the beginning?

In the case of those teleworking since the beginning, were they infected by family members or in other circumstances?

I assume that those data are available. This would give us an idea of whether or not teleworking provided maximum protection from COVID-19.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Thank you for the additional question.

The source of infection is difficult to determine. That is why we have kept asking that local and regional realities be considered and that the opinion and advice of local health and safety committees or local public health authorities be sought. Having said that, I can tell you that the following directive was clear: as soon as employees showed any one of the symptoms, they were asked to go home.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Regarding buildings and offices—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

Now we will go to Mr. Drouin for five minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses before us today.

My comments will be about a topic that has been discussed at the committee. I am fortunate to represent a number of public servants on the outskirts of Ottawa, and I would like to talk about the telework policy. I would like to know what the telework policy was before the pandemic, what it has been since the pandemic started, and what it will be after the pandemic.

Ms. Girard or Mr. Yalkin may be able to answer my question in relation to the directives that the Treasury Board Secretariat is giving to departments and agencies.

[Tolga Yalkin]

In advance of the pandemic, there was a telework directive in place, which was really based upon a different paradigm. It was based upon a notion of ad hoc and typically sporadic telework that was really employee driven. Since the pandemic, we've seen that paradigm challenged with the massive shift in remote work that we've seen across the public service, so that we can comply with public health advisories while at the same time ensuring continuity of operations and also of the services that Canadians rely on across the country and, indeed, around the globe.

As Madam Girard was mentioning, naturally, as the situation evolved, we have been observing very carefully the practices of departments, and we will continue to do so as we examine what the appropriate policy framework ought to be to structure the ongoing remote work that we will likely see in the public service going forward.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

What about those public servants who had to go to work? I've observed, and it's anecdotal.... I know that traffic is not as bad in the Ottawa-Gatineau region since the pandemic, but there are still some public servants who have to go to work for X reasons. What type of directive has Treasury Board issued to departments to ensure the safety of the employee?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Thank you for the question.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

You can answer my question in French.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Okay, then two francophones will not be speaking to each other in English.

A number of measures have been taken.

I repeat that the first directive stipulates that the work must be done from home in all cases where it is feasible.

If, because of the imperatives of service and program delivery, employees must work on site, all preventative measures must be applied. This issue has been studied by various workplace committees to reflect the reality of how each workplace operates rather than a cookie-cutter approach across the country. All personal protective equipment has been provided, signage has been installed and distance is maintained where possible.

I would add to my answer that the occupancy rate in federal buildings is approximately 25% to 30%, which is considered acceptable at this stage.

As part of the vaccination campaign, everyone is sending the message that vaccination is the solution. Employees are encouraged to get vaccinated as soon as their turn comes in the provincial and territorial vaccination strategy.

In the more critical locations, our rapid testing initiative comes fully into play and completes the range of measures.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's great. Thank you very much.

I know that several federal buildings will be renovated. Open-plan offices seem to be the new trend.

Is a task force studying the issue today to see if it's still the right thing to do, given the increased risk in a pandemic situation?

I know it was hard to predict; it happens once every 100 years.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Thank you very much for the question.

My answer will be in two—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Ms. Girard.

I apologize for interrupting. In light of the time, if you feel you can provide an answer in writing, we'd greatly appreciate that.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Of course.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Vignola, for two and a half minutes, plus the length of time it takes me to put it onto my timer.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Girard, as was mentioned earlier, in November of last year, instructions were issued asking that leave code 699 be used only after other types of paid leave had been used.

Statistics show that women are mainly the ones who have to take time off for family obligations, which means that they quickly use up their entire leave bank.

How does the Treasury Board Secretariat ensure that women are not penalized by this directive?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Thank you for the question, Mrs. Vignola.

The trend you describe unfortunately applies to the entire labour market.

The use of code 699 has dropped significantly over the past year. In this context, this is why it makes sense to have discussions with managers and to consider the issue on a case-by-case basis. A broader, gender-based analysis was conducted. Discussions with managers can bring solutions, such as work-sharing or reviewing work hours. We need to be able to adjust, so that one group is not penalized more than another.

That said, it is an ongoing process over time. Single parents still face an unrelenting reality.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

My colleagues mentioned offices earlier. We know that one of the ways the virus spreads is through outdated ventilation systems.

What measures have been taken to ensure that the ventilation systems in federal offices are effective enough to adequately protect employees when they return to the workplace?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Thank you for the question.

I am not an expert on equipment. When my colleagues appear before the committee, they will be able to give you a more detailed answer. In any case, all these factors will be examined before we consider a major, permanent return to the workplace.

In addition, public health experts make distinctions regarding airborne spread. Given that I'm not a public health expert, I would not want to get into the subtleties of this issue.

I invite you to ask the experts.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Ms. Vignola.

We'll go to Mr. Green for two and a half minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to use this time to revisit a notice of motion that I've placed. I've sent it out to your P9s. It's to hopefully get to the heart of the matter, which is controlling the controllables and having a better understanding about how we might be able to offset some of the losses we're experiencing through this Crown corporation.

I'm going to move the following:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(c)(ix), the committee undertake a study of the Public Sector Pension Investment Board's (PSP) ownership of Revera Inc., and that the committee invite witnesses including, but not limited to, the Chair of PSP and the Chair of Revera Inc.

I will just take a moment, Mr. Chair, to speak to that. Members of this committee will recall that I tabled this earlier in the year. I think it is appropriate given that we're hearing today in the news and understanding that there is very little we can control. This is one of the things I believe we can control.

Given the purview of this committee and the conversations that have arisen today, I think we should go ahead and call the appropriate people to this committee to give us some kind of assurance that as a Crown corporation, even at arm's length, they are working within the parameters of best practices around public health and safety and workers' health and safety. I think this is the way to do it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you for the motion, Mr. Green.

I will call for debate.

Mr. Drouin.