Evidence of meeting #30 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marie-Chantal Girard  Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat
Tolga Yalkin  Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat
Debi Daviau  President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Chris Aylward  National President, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Sharleen Stewart  President, Service Employees International Union Healthcare
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Paul Cardegna

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair (Mr. Robert Kitchen (Souris—Moose Mountain, CPC)) Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Good afternoon, everybody. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 30 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

The committee is meeting today from 3:32 to 5:32, Ottawa time. We will hear witnesses as part of the committee's study of government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

I'd like to take this opportunity to remind all participants to this meeting that screenshots and taking photos of your screen are not permitted.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few of the rules. Interpretation of this video conference will work very much like in a regular committee meeting. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of either floor, English or French audio. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are ready to speak, you can click on the microphone to activate your mike. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

To raise a point of order during the meeting, committee members should ensure that their microphone is unmuted and say “point of order” to get the chair's attention.

The clerk and the analysts are participating in the meeting virtually today. If you need to speak with them during the meeting, please email them through the committee email address. The clerk can also be reached on his mobile phone.

For those who are participating in the committee room, please note that masks are required unless seated and when physical distancing is not possible.

I will now invite the TBS witnesses to make their opening statements.

3:30 p.m.

Marie-Chantal Girard Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In the spirit of reconciliation, I would like to begin by acknowledging that we are speaking to you today from the traditional unceded territories.

My name is Marie-Chantal Girard, and I am the assistant deputy minister of the pensions and benefits sector. I am joined by Tolga Yalkin, assistant deputy minister of workplace policies and programs at the Treasury Board Secretariat.

In mid-March, many of the nearly 300,000 federal public servants began working from home virtually overnight.

Many continued their day-to-day tasks, delivering information, programs and services to Canadians.

A number of them were also asked to take on new work to support the government's response to the pandemic, including implementing public health preparedness and response measures, supports for citizens and businesses impacted by the crisis, and much more.

For example, more than a thousand federal public servants volunteered to staff the call centre for the Canadian emergency relief benefit.

Many other public servants are continuing to play an enabling role in supporting the delivery of government programs and services, including building up and maintaining a reliable information technology infrastructure to support remote work.

At the Treasury Board Secretariat, officials continue to support the government's response to the pandemic. They are managing the supply cycle of government planning and reporting, providing guidance to deputy heads for the management of human resources, and providing policy directions to departments in a whole range of other areas.

My colleague and I are here to answer your questions related to the human resources management of the public service during the pandemic.

The office of the chief human resources officer has been providing guidance to deputy heads on overall human resources management throughout the pandemic. In doing so, we continue to be guided by the advice of public health authorities, including the Public Health Agency of Canada and Health Canada's public service occupational health program, on all issues relating to the COVID-19 pandemic, including vaccination.

Like all Canadians, the vast majority of federal employees have already been or will be vaccinated according to the vaccination program in the province or territory in which they reside.

In light of the prevailing public health guidance, public service employees will largely continue to work remotely for the foreseeable future. For employees in key federal workplaces, the Government of Canada is expanding the use of rapid tests for screening purposes. Those in workplaces where there is a higher risk of exposure will be offered rapid tests on a voluntary basis, administered by trained personnel.

Within the Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer, there is an acknowledgement that, beyond the immediate physical health risks posed by the global pandemic, there are, and will continue to be, both short- and long-term psychological impacts for employees in the public sector, just as we are seeing in the broader Canadian society.

Steps continue to be taken, and active communications through a number of avenues are ensured so that public servants are aware of the supports available to them. These include enhanced access to mental health support, tools and guidance, and information and training sessions to help them navigate the challenges they face.

Temporary changes were made to the federal public service health care plan, expanding the list of covered service providers to include psychotherapists and social workers, and removing the requirement for a prescription for required paramedical services or extending the validity of the current prescription.

Temporary measures were also put in place to facilitate more flexible and alternative work arrangements and to support employees who are unable to work remotely. In addition, the COVID-19 and mental health virtual resource hub was launched. It provides free and accessible resources, supports and tools for employees, and is open to all Canadians.

While we continue to prioritize mental health and apply a mental health lens to much of what is done, employees face different mental health issues in their day-to-day environment. The goal is to ensure everyone finds the support they need.

The pandemic has not impacted all Canadians equally. In the federal public service, diversity, accessibility and inclusion are a priority, and much work remains to be done.

At the Treasury Board Secretariat, a number of actions have been taken over the past year to support departmental efforts in this area: first, the publication of new disaggregated workforce data and, last month, the launch of a new online interactive data visualization tool; second, the creation of the centre on diversity and inclusion in the office of the chief human resources officer, which leads new and innovative initiatives, does recruitment and talent management, and coordinates and co-develops solutions with stakeholders; third, the launch of the federal speaker's forum on diversity and inclusion to provide a platform for diverse public servants to share their lived experience; and finally, the implementation of the mentorship plus program, which pairs employees from diverse backgrounds with executive mentors and sponsors.

Public servants provide important programs and services to Canadians, and we are continually looking at ways to improve supports and resources available to them.

As has been the case thus far, any guidance on return to work sites will be guided by science, and developed in collaboration with deputy heads and in consultation with bargaining agents. We will, of course, adjust as the science evolves.

With that, we would be happy to answer questions members may have.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Thank you, Ms. Girard, for your opening statement. I appreciated it.

I would like to remind everyone on the committee that if you want to speak in both languages and go from one to the other, please pause for a second as you go to the second language, so that the interpreters can have a moment. It's to make sure we don't miss much in the interpretation. Thank you very much.

We'll now start with Mr. McCauley, for six minutes.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Thanks for being with us today.

When will the public service employee opinion survey be published? The website says it will be spring of this year.

3:40 p.m.

Tolga Yalkin Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat

The results of the survey will be out in fairly short order. I don't have a pinpoint—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

What's “fairly short order”? When will it be out?

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat

Tolga Yalkin

Mr. Chair, as I said, I don't have a pinpoint date for its release. Before we convened for this meeting, we conferred with our colleagues who are analyzing the results that were collected over the period that this survey was provided to public servants, and it should be fairly shortly. We'd be happy to update the committee as soon as we have a specific date.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Okay, thanks.

I want to go over to the use of 699.

How are the second and third waves—and it's mostly Ontario I'm talking about, because that's where the bulk of the public servants are—affecting the use of 699? Have we seen an increase at all with the two waves that have hit?

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marie-Chantal Girard

We report on a monthly basis on the use of 699, but it takes about six weeks to process the data. We've seen that following the peak we had a sharp decline in the use of 699, and in January, the last period we reported on, we saw a slight increase following the closure of schools.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Are you seeing an increase right now?

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marie-Chantal Girard

January was the last month—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

What are you seeing right now?

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marie-Chantal Girard

The data was sent and is currently being processed—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

You haven't seen any of the data yourself.

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marie-Chantal Girard

Not since the report of January 2021.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Help me out. If you're working from home, how would you be on 699? How would such a wave affect you if you're working at home? You said you saw an increase with the schools closing.

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marie-Chantal Girard

Yes.

We saw the use of code 699, other leave with pay, vary during the pandemic. At the beginning, of course, setting up, having the right technology—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

No, I realize that. I mean right now, though.

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marie-Chantal Girard

Yes, right now, for example, because of social distancing and the confinement restrictions, if you don't have anyone to take care of your family—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

If your kids are at home with you, you can claim 699.

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marie-Chantal Girard

No, not necessarily in a direct way. The 699 code is—

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

In an indirect way?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marie-Chantal Girard

After you've discussed with your manager that you've explored other work alternatives, flexible work hours, and also using other leaves that were available to you, after those options have been looked at, if there are no other possibilities, then the use of 699 is allowed.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

We still see claims for 699 because of technological or work limitations. It's been a year now. How are we still having public servants claiming pay for not working because of technological or workplace limitations? What are those numbers? How many FTEs would you think?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat

Marie-Chantal Girard

I don't have the number. I have the number of 699—