Evidence of meeting #30 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marie-Chantal Girard  Assistant Deputy Minister, Pensions and Benefits, Treasury Board Secretariat
Tolga Yalkin  Assistant Deputy Minister, Workplace Policies and Services, Treasury Board Secretariat
Debi Daviau  President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Chris Aylward  National President, Public Service Alliance of Canada
Sharleen Stewart  President, Service Employees International Union Healthcare
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Paul Cardegna

5 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Well, I asked for that information. I'm hoping they will provide it, because they said they have quite extensive info. They've been less than forthcoming so far.

Mr. Aylward, do you have similar numbers?

5 p.m.

National President, Public Service Alliance of Canada

Chris Aylward

As Ms. Daviau said, we can't put an exact number to this, for sure.

You are right, Mr. McCauley, that it is up to individual managers to approve or deny leave. That's one of the unfortunate parts of this, as we've seen.

I can tell you, though, that the numbers are far lower than they were in the early days.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Do you mean far fewer are approved or far fewer are declined?

5 p.m.

National President, Public Service Alliance of Canada

Chris Aylward

Far fewer are being requested.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Okay.

Would you be able to get back to me, both of you, with departments, for example, such-and-such department is approving them all; such-and-such department is not? If you have that, I'd appreciate it.

I want to skip over to something about critical workers getting vaccinated.

I mentioned earlier that the women's institution is in my riding. Their job is very difficult. I've been meeting with them for years. They do a phenomenal job under very trying circumstances.

Who, among Corrections Services Canada personnel, has not yet been vaccinated in that critical worker area?

5 p.m.

President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada

Debi Daviau

We were able to get the employer to identify priorities for our health care workers. Unfortunately, because the system is rolled out provincially, that also relied on the provinces following those regulations. We had some troubles in Nova Scotia recently, I believe—initially, also in B.C.—but we're slowly getting those resolved.

Some of the other concerns we have are about people doing critical frontline work who haven't been identified as priorities by the feds, so they're left to fend for themselves in their provinces.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Because I'm short of time, do you think both of you could send us just a simple letter, saying these are the critical areas; these are specific jobs or specific sectors, just so we're better aware?

I have one final question, because I'm sure I have only about a minute or two. I just want to get general feedback, again anecdotal or just general feedback, on how you see workers who.... You discussed a need to change between those who want to come back and those who want to continue to work from home. For those who wish to return, whether they have to or because of a general desire, are you in talks with TBS about making that happen? What do you see having to happen before people can start returning to the workplace?

5:05 p.m.

National President, Public Service Alliance of Canada

Chris Aylward

There are a couple of things that have to happen. First of all, the rapid testing has to remain a priority. If we're going to start putting non-critical workers back into the workplace, that has to remain a priority. I can tell you, getting workers back into the workplace is not the priority. Getting the work done and keeping the workers safe are the priorities.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I realize that, but I'm thinking about eventually, down the road.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Thank you, Mr. McCauley. Thank you, Mr. Aylward.

I will now go to Mr. Jowhari, for six minutes.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for your testimonies.

I'm going to start with Ms. Stewart.

First of all, thank you for acknowledging that this week is Nurses Week and also for highlighting the individuals who lost their lives.

In your testimony back on May 8, 2020, you told the committee that long-term care workers are predominately women, and especially women of colour. Also, in your testimony you indicated that you had a number of opportunities to have dialogue with the government. In any of those conversations with the government did you discuss the collection of race- or ethnicity-based data in the health care sector?

5:05 p.m.

President, Service Employees International Union Healthcare

Sharleen Stewart

First I want to thank, like I said, many of you with whom I had conversations, and I want to acknowledge that they were very collaborative conversations. We definitely did talk. May seems so long ago when we all look back at what we were identifying.

Some of the conversations we had were around prioritizing the communities, which you're starting to see happen now. Vaccines are a prime example of it, where they are going into those vulnerable, marginalized communities. Yes, we definitely had conversations about how the pandemic has shone a light on health care issues, but there are also community issues that we are starting to talk about now. We've had some really good conversations, and you're starting to see some improvements in some of those communities, but it is a real issue that we cannot drop after we grab a hold of this pandemic. We have to talk.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

To be more specific, did you have conversations on the collection of race- or ethnicity-based data in the health care sector?

5:05 p.m.

President, Service Employees International Union Healthcare

Sharleen Stewart

We had conversations with some of the federal employees, not so much the MPs, about how we start to collect that—

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

What about the government? Have you had conversations with the government?

5:05 p.m.

President, Service Employees International Union Healthcare

Sharleen Stewart

We have had them with staff from the government.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

In the same appearance, on May 8 last year, you recommended the steady supply of personal protective equipment, and job stability and benefits for public health workers. You also recommended mandating a higher staffing level for long-term care homes. Around $1 billion was announced for long-term care in the Speech from the Throne and another $3 billion in budget 2021.

What are your thoughts on that? How satisfied are you with those announcements?

5:05 p.m.

President, Service Employees International Union Healthcare

Sharleen Stewart

Again, the announcements are a start, but there is a lot of work to do. There's going to be a need to put a lot of dollars into stabilizing the sector. Again, you saw some improvements in Ontario where they legislated higher levels of care staff or hands-on care for hours, but the promise isn't going to be fulfilled for years. The commitments are good, but the action has to be much broader. Funding is an issue, definitely.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Are you saying the funding still remains an issue after $4 billion of investment?

5:05 p.m.

President, Service Employees International Union Healthcare

Sharleen Stewart

It's now putting it into action, like transferring it into the provinces and having them be accountable to make sure the money goes where it's directed.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you.

Have you had an opportunity to talk to your members to see whether they are receiving adequate levels of personal protective equipment in long-term care centres?

5:05 p.m.

President, Service Employees International Union Healthcare

Sharleen Stewart

Yes, we did, just as recently as this week. There still remains some concern over N95 accessibility. The unions are trying to get the government to agree to making it mandatory that all frontline workers have access to and use the N95.

In some of the long-term care facilities, infection prevention and control is still an issue. They continue to have to rely on agency staff. As you know, as the federal government we're bringing in a lot of support from other provinces. Again, infection prevention and control training is critical. Some of the newer trained nurses coming in as well, and PSWs, are not versed in that and they're not up to par. That is adding additional work to the existing staff to make sure they are trained adequately in infection prevention and control measures.

We've had concerns, even with the downloading of hospitals into long-term care, about making sure those long-stay patients have been vaccinated as well. It continues to remain a struggle with PPE, with IPAC and with vaccinations.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you.

I'm going to go to Madam Daviau.

According to the Government of Canada's website, about 4,581 federal public servants have reported cases of COVID-19 as of April 28. How many of those have been your members? Do you have any data around that?

5:10 p.m.

President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada

Debi Daviau

No, unfortunately, I don't have data on that. I would imagine that by proportion, maybe about a quarter of those would be our members.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

Understanding that most of the members are working from home or working remotely, what are your thoughts about that many getting COVID?