Government Operations Committee on May 12th, 2021

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

If I remember well, we all voted in favour of that legislation in the spring of 2020.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Minister.

If the minister and Mr. Purves can provide further answers to the committee, it would be appreciated if they could be provided to the clerk. Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. MacKinnon for five minutes.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I welcome the President of the Treasury Board. Mr. Duclos, it's a great pleasure to have you here again.

Before I move to another topic, I would like to quickly go back to a point that Mrs. Vignola raised, about the compensation for the Phoenix pay system.

I would like to clarify one point. The Treasury Board took no position either for or against compensation for the Phoenix pay system and has no role in the decision on whether or not to pay it. Is that correct?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Mr. McKinnon, thank you for your kindness and your gracious words.

The responsibilities are threefold: two of them are up to the Treasury Board and the third is up to the Canada Revenue Agency.

First, the Treasury Board Secretariat was responsible for negotiating an agreement with the bargaining agents.

Second, it had to make the content of that agreement public. Just now, I referred to clause 18 in the agreement. That was made public a number of weeks ago.

The Canada Revenue Agency was responsible for establishing whether or not deductions would apply. It was then supposed to inform the appropriate people about the nature of the deductions that would be applied to the compensation paid pursuant to the agreement that the Treasury Board Secretariat and the bargaining agents had negotiated.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Those decisions are made independently of the secretariat, of course.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Exactly. The secretariat negotiated and published the agreement. The Canada Revenue Agency then went through the agreement to establish, in the most transparent and professional way possible, the nature of the deductions that had to be applied to the compensation paid.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you for those clarifications.

As you know, I am a member of Parliament for the National Capital Region, just like my colleague Mr. Drouin, who sits on this committee. Public servants are often asking us about their return to work. People are curious and want to know how they can organize their lives. They are wondering what the future holds for them after the pandemic.

In words that the people listening to us are very likely to understand, can you explain which factors the Treasury Board Secretariat, the employer, will consider in its deliberations over the return to work protocol?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. MacKinnon.

You are fortunate, as I am, to be able to represent a constituency with a lot of public servants. You represent Ottawa and I represent Quebec City.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

Actually, I am the member for Gatineau.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

My apologies. I should know that because I live in Gatineau myself. We both are fortunate to represent and associate with people who spend a good part of their energy and their time in the service of our country.

The three key words are health, flexibility and collaboration.

The main objective is to ensure the health and safety of public service employees. Employers actually have a legal obligation to do so. It must be done with flexibility. In other words, working conditions and responsibilities must be considered, and they vary from employee to employee, depending on the workplace. The pandemic had a number of repercussions on levels of risk to the health of the employees. It is extremely important to be flexible and to be able to adapt.

The third key word is collaboration. As President of the Treasury Board and a member of Parliament, I can say that MPs have the responsibility of working closely with public servants and their representatives. We have been doing that since the pandemic began.

If you wish, the officials could tell you in more detail about the mechanisms that have been established since the beginning to make sure that everything is done to ensure the best work-life conditions of public servants in the Ottawa-Gatineau and Quebec City regions.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

We have already heard that you will be delegating authority to agency and department deputy ministers to decide what steps to take regarding return-to-work in the respective agencies and departments.

Why are you delegating this task?

Why did you choose this decentralized approach?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

That's a very good question. We can only guess the answer, and the public servants understand that quite easily. It obviously depends on the working and living conditions of these public servants. Canada is a very large country. People are serving the country in every province and territory. Pandemic conditions have varied and return-to-work conditions must also vary.

There is also the fact that the pandemic has been an extremely difficult and traumatic event in many ways. However, we have learned a number of lessons—we talked about this not too long ago—that will allow us to do even better after the pandemic. There are technological lessons learned—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now go to Ms. Vignola for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Duclos, I'll come back to what Mr. Green was talking about earlier. Your departmental plan indicates that you are going to work with all the ministers and organizations to ensure compliance with the Official Languages Act. I'd like to know when that will begin.

Yesterday, I received an invitation from a minister to attend an information session given only in English, without interpretation. This is in addition to the other invitations I've received, including one from the Minister of Finance to discuss the budget, another information session given only in English, without interpretation.

Not only are Canadians entitled to have access to information in both official languages, but so are MPs.

When will this great battle—I'm not sure what to call it—begin to ensure that French is taken into account, even by ministers?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Thank you, Mrs. Vignola, for the question.

There is so much to say about this, but I know our time is too short. I could tell you about all the things we've been doing since 2015 to increase bilingualism in the public service and across the country. I'm thinking of Ontario's French-language university, the appointment of bilingual Supreme Court judges, the $2.7 billion for the action plan for official languages 2018-23, the largest official languages plan in the country's history, the enumeration of rights holders on the short-form census—I hope you all filled it out—the reinstatement of the Court Challenges Program, which was abolished twice by the Conservatives, and many other things.

However, since I know that the time is short, I'll limit myself to what the public service and the Treasury Board Secretariat are doing and will continue to do in the coming weeks, which is strengthening appointment and assessment criteria for public service positions.

I know you're a little impatient, because you also want me to talk about how you and we, as francophones, must always take our place. If you or I feel that there are things, including in this committee, that do not meet the expectations that we as parliamentarians must have in a bilingual context and in the public service, we must speak up and insist that corrections be made.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

This is done with—

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Ms. Vignola.

Thank you, Minister.

We'll now go to Mr. Green for two and a half minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

The Minister of Finance presented her budget on April 19. When will the supplementary estimates (A) for 2021-22 be tabled?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

They will be tabled very soon, Matthew.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

What date would be very soon? Do we have a month? Do we know? Are we talking a few weeks?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

As you might expect, I won't give you a precise date, but I can tell you it will be as soon as possible. If you'd like to have further details, I can turn to Mr. Purves.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

No, that's fine. You're quite capable.

What portion of the budget measures announced by the Minister of Finance on April 19 will be included in these estimates? Specifically, have they included child care?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

As you know, I have great esteem and even affection for you, Matthew. Unfortunately, I cannot provide these details at this time, but I'd be happy to come back as quickly as I can, either me or officials, to provide further guidance on that important question.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Forgive me, but what's stopping you exactly from giving us a basic estimate on when we might be looking to see that? I mean, we waited two years for the budget.

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Are you thinking about the date or the content of the estimates?