Evidence of meeting #31 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was purves.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
That's okay. I won't attribute any malice.
Although I have seen some expert ducking and dodging of questions, I will not attribute his blacked-out screen to that kind of tactic, because I know him to not be that type of—
6:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Mr. Green, if you want to continue your questioning, I had paused you for a brief amount when this happened, so—
6:10 p.m.
NDP
6:10 p.m.
Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
I can do this. Thank you for the question.
Actually, in the Treasury Board Secretariat contingent liability, there are no provisions for land claims, as indicated by Mr. Purves. The provision would be in the specific department's public accounts books.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Are you privy to those numbers? Is this something that you would be briefed on?
6:10 p.m.
Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
I am not. As the CFO, I'm only privy to the numbers for TBS, but the specific department definitely could provide these numbers.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Then would you be privy to how much has been paid out to indigenous, first nations and Métis claims that are already settled? I've asked this question before, and we didn't have clarity around that.
6:10 p.m.
Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Again, sir, thanks for the question.
Mr. Chair, I am not privy to this information, but we can track the information for the member.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, I understood it to be the case that up until the point of settlement, it's the Department of Finance, but that after they were settled and to be paid out, the Treasury Board would have an understanding of these numbers.
Could Ms. Cahill help me understand why that's not the case?
6:10 p.m.
Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
I am really sorry, Mr. Chair. Again, I see what the TBS pays out. This amount would not be paid by the Treasury Board Secretariat—
6:10 p.m.
NDP
6:10 p.m.
Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
I can't answer this question. I'm sorry. I don't have the answer.
May 12th, 2021 / 6:10 p.m.
Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
Mr. Chair, maybe to respond to Mr. Green's question, in the public accounts at the end of the year—I don't have the specific listing here—there is a summary of all of the claims that have been paid. Again, whenever there would be funding that would go out, there would have to be a source of funds of some sort, whether that was from internal departmental resources or specific to a specific claim or settlement, but for the specifics on each individual one, I don't have that information myself.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
If the public service sector was being sued for $1 million by the Black class action lawsuit, would the Treasury Board know if there was a set-aside on that contingent liability?
6:10 p.m.
Assistant Comptroller General, Financial Management Sector, Office of the Comptroller General, Treasury Board Secretariat
The Treasury Board would be aware of the fact that there would be a legal suit going on. Working with the Department of Justice—again, I'm not speaking to any specific suit—there would then be discussions around setting up contingent liabilities as per public sector accounting standards.
6:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
What is the contingent liability for the Treasury Board on lawsuit settlements currently? Would it be in these main estimates?
6:10 p.m.
Assistant Secretary and Chief Financial Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
No. You will find the contingent liability in our public accounts as per Mr. Ermuth. Each department will have worked on their contingent liability. It will also depend on the likeliness of the settlement.
6:15 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
If I could, as a point of privilege, please give my best to Mr. Purves and let him know that he was dearly missed in my round of questioning.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you, Mr. Green.
As the question was put to Mr. Purves before we lost him, perhaps, through Ms. Cahill or Mr. Ermuth, he might be able to provide a written answer to the committee. It would be appreciated if you could forward that to him.
We will now go to the second round and to Mr. McCauley for five minutes.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
To the witnesses, I want to get to the departmental results. Before I do, I have some more questions on the Treasury Board process. Maybe I can just give them to you and you can get back to us. I suspect it would be lengthy answers.
I'd like to know what COVID measures the Treasury Board reviewed. What went through the process? I was asking about the wage subsidy. What COVID measures got exemptions from policy? How many exemptions from policies were granted in the last 12 months?
If you could get back to the committee on that, I'd appreciate it.
From the departmental results, I have a few things.
First, I'm looking at the departmental result indicator for the “percentage of access to information requests responded to within legislated timelines”. Often at this committee we have discussed the raging dump fire that is our ATIP system right now. It was 79% in 2019-20. The target for this current year is 85%.
Why would we not have it set at 100% when it's a legislative timeline? Again, these are not wishes to have ATIPs returned on a certain time. These are legislated timelines. Why would we not have 100% as a bare minimum and as the only possible goal?
6:15 p.m.
Sonya Read Acting Assistant Secretary, Digital and Services Policy, Treasury Board Secretariat
Thank you very much for that question, Mr. Chair.
We've set the targets based on reasonable expectations in terms of past performance.
6:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Can I just interrupt right there?
How is not recognizing the law or obeying the law a reasonable expectation? It's a legislated guideline. It's not legislative wishes. It's not legislative get around to it whenever. These are legislated guidelines. I realize that it may not be achievable, but should we not be having our goals set to recognize legislated timelines?