Evidence of meeting #34 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contracts.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bill Matthews  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Chair, I'm going to pause right there.

I'd like the minister to substantiate the fact that she is calling my claim incorrect. I have the 2019 mandate letter and I have the 2021 mandate letter. On what basis is the minister saying I'm incorrect?

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

If the honourable member would allow me a moment to explain, I will do so. The letter that we were recently provided is, in fact, supplementary to the 2019 mandate letter. Therefore, the target of having at least 5% of federal contracts awarded to indigenous businesses stands and it is a target that we are still aiming to reach. The preamble, in fact, is clear that the 2019 letter stands, if the member would care to read the preamble.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Okay.

Minister, I also have the departmental plan and I've read through from 2018-19, 2019-20, 2020-21 and 2021-22. Interestingly enough, you may or may not be aware of this, but the plan actually says that for goals for women and indigenous businesses, it's TBD. I have that document right here. It says, “TBD”, to be determined. In other words, there are actually no goals set.

Minister, you're actually misleading the committee right now by saying there are big goals and that you are achieving them. There are none. I have the documents right in front of me. How do you explain that?

June 2nd, 2021 / 5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, “misleading” is unparliamentary language.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

I would ask that everybody be respectful of each other in their responses, on both sides, along those lines.

Carry on, Minister.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

I did not hear a question in the member's last comment. I'll wait to hear the actual question.

Thank you.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

I was just wondering why the minister, through you, Mr. Chair, is choosing to try to mislead this committee, as if she has a plan, when in fact I have a document in front of me that shows that she's had four years—

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Steven MacKinnon Liberal Gatineau, QC

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

This is outrageous. On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I would actually ask you to make a ruling. That's unparliamentary language. That's not acceptable. An apology is warranted.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

We will suspend for a second.

We will bring the meeting back to order.

I thank the member for his comments. I appreciate that.

At this point in time, I see that in the context of the discussion, and therefore I will allow it to stand at this point.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Thank you, Chair.

I'm just waiting for the minister's answer.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

As I mentioned, we do have a target in my mandate letter. That is a target of a minimum of 5% that I and the department are seeking to reach. Once we have the data to establish the baseline, we will measure the percentage increase and measure our performance against that baseline. So I would—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Minister, thank you.

What's interesting to me, though, is that the baseline hasn't been established, so I don't know what you're measuring your success against. Again, I have four years' worth of departmental plans that show there is no plan, that there is no benchmark, in terms of wanting to procure through businesses that are led by indigenous people or by women.

Minister, my next question is very simple. Did you sign the departmental plans?

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

Well, actually, I would like to really correct the member, because there is—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

No. It's pretty simple.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

—an objective—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

The departmental plans are for your department. Did you sign them? Did you sign off?

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

There is an objective in my mandate letter of a minimum of 5%. That's the target we're working towards. That's what we're working towards.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

Chair—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Thank you.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rachael Thomas Conservative Lethbridge, AB

She didn't answer my question.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Weiler for five minutes.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

Excuse me, Mr. Chair. I believe this will be my last question. We have reached the—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

Yes, Minister, this is the last person up for questions.

5:35 p.m.

Liberal

Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON

That's right.

5:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen

I appreciate your bearing with us, as we're a couple of minutes over time. We appreciate it.

Mr. Weiler.