Government Operations Committee on Nov. 16th, 2020

[Bill Matthews]

I think there are two pieces here. One is the data James is referring to around the ownership and leadership of under-represented groups. I think Mr. Green's question relates to data related to employment equity within the companies themselves, if I can say that. I think maybe we'll have to take that one back. I think you're running out of time, Mr. Green, so I think—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Respectfully, let's be very clear, Mr. Matthews, the chair will decide when I'm running out of time.

I still haven't gotten an answer here. This is something that I asked you back in May, and it was supposed to come back, and we had filibusters on this to not get this information, so I'll just put it to you very clearly: Do you follow your own procurement policy under the federal contractors program? Yes or no?

[Bill Matthews]

Again, I think we'll have to get back to you on that, because I think you're referring to an ESDC program, and I just want to make sure that we're clear on the program you're referring to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Green. I appreciate that.

We're now into the second round with Mr. McCauley. When looking at the clock, I think we will go to four minutes, four minutes, two and a half, two and a half, four minutes, four minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Great. I will keep it fast.

Mr. Matthews, welcome back.

You mentioned the audio feedback driving you crazy. Well, being crazy would help you fit right in with OGGO.

I want to get to the contaminated masks that we bought. You had mentioned before that the supplier was going to make good on it. An answer to an Order Paper question just came back today where the government stated it would not tell us if they've been refunded, in order to support their negotiating position. What is going on with those contaminated masks? Are we getting our money back, and are we still buying from that supplier?

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, I'll be very brief.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes.

[Bill Matthews]

They're not contaminated. They did not meet the standard for N95 masks. The supplier made some attempts to rectify that with replacement masks. We are still not happy with that standard, so discussions are ongoing about the next steps, because we are in a world where—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Are we still buying from that supplier?

[Bill Matthews]

Absolutely not.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

Are we still using Deloitte in China to facilitate PPE purchases?

[Bill Matthews]

I believe we still have a contract with them. I believe the contract is still valid. We're not doing much new activity with them, but it's still a valid contract, I believe.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I want to ask you something else. When we last had you here we were asking about the forced labour. One of the things that you said disqualified someone from being eligible to sell to us is if they are found to have pleaded guilty to charges that are on the list. Deloitte China, which is Deloitte China Tohmatsu, had charges laid against them by the SEC for refusing to provide documents regarding fraud. They've been fined in the last two decades almost a third of a billion dollars for government contracting offences and accounting fraud. Would that disqualify them on the basis of what you stated a couple months ago from being eligible to receive government contracts?

[Bill Matthews]

Mr. Chair, that wouldn't apply to Deloitte Canada, which is who the contract is with. Those charges, I—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

My understanding is that Deloitte Canada operates in a simplified version, much like a franchise, but Deloitte China.... I don't think Deloitte Canada sent their partners over to China, did they?

They would contract Deloitte China Tohmatsu, so we in fact hired someone....

[Bill Matthews]

The contract the Canadian government would have is with Deloitte Canada. I will have to get back to you on your specific question, though, on those charges.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I have a couple of quick questions. In section 3.22.15 of the supply manual—I'm not expecting you to know the number—it states that a team should be created for emergency contracting requirements. I assume all of the PPE purchases are emergency contracting requirements. Have you done this, and what's the team's official title? How many people are on that emergency team?

[Bill Matthews]

Basically it's the whole procurement department. Effectively, we took the entire shop under Arianne Reza and had them dedicated to PPE purchases and then vaccine negotiations, etc.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So we didn't create an emergency.... Okay.

The next part of that says that decisions and deviations to the process must be documented.

I'm wondering what the most common deviation is that you're seeing occur right now with these emergency purchases. Are you identifying possible inefficiencies to correct the procurement system as we go forward?

[Bill Matthews]

The most obvious deviation, especially early on, would be the sole-sourced nature of many of the contracts—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Sorry, just quickly, the supply manual says that they have to be documented. Have you documented those, and can you make them available to the committee?

[Bill Matthews]

The justification for every contract is documented, absolutely. We have the usual question, Mr. Chair, about what we would be allowed to share in terms of confidentiality, etc., but in theory....

We'd have to take that one back.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Matthews.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Mr. Kusmierczyk, you have four minutes.