Government Operations Committee on April 26th, 2022

[Karen Cahill]

I would offer that we have more horizontal initiatives.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Why aren't all horizontal initiatives put in vote 10, then?

[Karen Cahill]

In those cases the money that we will disburse from vote 10 is not known at the time we go to the board. Therefore we set aside some money.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

You want Parliament to pre-approve, but you just said you don't know what the money is for. You just ask Parliament to pre-approve it.

[Karen Cahill]

No, we do know what the money is for.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Do you not understand our concern?

[Karen Cahill]

We do not know the amounts that will be required by the departments.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

But you're asking us to pre-approve it. You just said that you don't know how much, but you're asking us to pre-approve it. That's my concern with using the vote 10, when historically it has been done before. It should be in the departments as a horizontal.

I'm afraid I'm out of time. You said you don't know how much would be needed but you're asking us to pre-approve the total.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. McCauley. Once again, it's another great question.

I'm sure that if you can provide an answer to the committee in writing to the clerk, we would distribute that.

We will now go for five minutes to Mr. Bains.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all of our witnesses here today.

I'm going to talk a little bit about a question around barriers on innovation and economic growth. Since the minister last appeared in front of this committee, the government introduced Bill S-6. The bill repeals or amends regulations that have over time become barriers to innovation and economic growth.

Can any member of the team maybe comment on how that bill will do this?

[Karen Cahill]

As stated by the minister in the first hour, Bill S-6 will offer more, make it easier for businesses to do business across borders. It will provide a more digital environment for Canadians to deal with our Canadian business. This bill will also ensure that we are able to make it less burdensome for businesses to do what they have to do. Therefore this will help them with the restart of the economy postpandemic.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'll go into a different area here. In its 2022-23 departmental plan, TBS notes that it will continue “to implement the Accessibility Strategy for the Public Service of Canada, including by ensuring progress toward hiring 5,000 new public servants with disabilities by 2025”.

How many new public servants with disabilities have been hired since the launch of the strategy in 2019? Again, that's to anybody who has the answer.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Thank you very much. I can answer that, Mr. Chair.

Indeed as a federal public service, we are very committed to taking concrete action to increase the number of persons with disabilities in the workplace, but also making it more accessible and supporting the fact that they remain in the public service.

The goal is 5,000 by 2025. In 2021, there were 1,363 new persons with disabilities hired across the public service. Having said that, I must report, though, that some at the same time have also left the public service, so the net new hires are 183 public servants.

It's clear that more work needs to be done, and we need to put some emphasis on retaining, maintaining, in the public service those persons with disabilities who join our workforce.

Thank you.

[Parm Bains, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Is there anything being done to focus on raising more awareness of these roles that are available?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Absolutely. We are implementing the Accessible Canada Act and the strategy, “Nothing Without Us”. This strategy was developed with persons with disabilities. They developed a road map to increase their recruitment, but also their retention. They're working on several initiatives, such as creating a welcoming and adaptive workplace and making sure that the accommodations provided allow them to remain in the workplace.

There is the GC accessibility passport that has been put in place. It is a tool that streamlines the accommodation process and brings in a new culture. It also allows people to move from one department to another and have that passport follow them, instead of starting over every time they get a new job.

There are also other initiatives, such as the neurodiversity recruitment pilot in FINTRAC that is being put in place with Shared Services Canada and the Public Service Commission. There is a lending library service pilot with Shared Services Canada that also works on digital access.

A lot is being done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Bains.

We will now go to Mrs. Vignola for two and a half minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I always enjoy, although not everyone does, dissecting the budget. I really enjoy it, because I have 15,000 questions. Maybe I have an oppositional disorder, I don't know.

I’m going to set the budget aside a little bit, as much as I like to dissect it, and I'm going to focus on one of the Treasury Board responsibilities for federal buildings. There comes a time when a building has to be disposed of, and a bill of sale is then made to an agent. I'm thinking of one building in particular. You may not be able to give me details on this specific case, but I'm wondering about the process. It has surely been done very well, and that's not the problem, but this building is being sold at one‑tenth of its value. It's a heritage building, and there's no provision to oblige a future buyer to keep it in place.

Is it usual for heritage buildings to be sold at a tenth of their value and without consideration for the heritage?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

Mr. Chair, I will turn to my colleague, Samantha Tattersall, to take that question.

[Samantha Tattersall, Assistant Comptroller General, Acquired Services and Assets Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

In terms of the specific building, we wouldn't have the details because, as you said, it is not a building that the Treasury Board owns.

In terms of the disposal process, there are two stages. In the first stage, there are legal requirements before you dispose of a property. There are environmental requirements and indigenous engagement and consultation requirements. In the second part, you move into policy requirements with the disposal.

When you're looking at policy, the first thing you look at is priority circulation. Can the building serve a public purpose? There is a priority circulation to federal departments, provinces and municipalities. After that process, if there is not—

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I'm studying the process. I'm a bit of an odd duck, very curious.

I can understand disposing of a heritage building, but I don't understand why there is no provision at any time for the preservation of that building and that it should be left to be completely destroyed.

Is that normal?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Vignola.

Unfortunately, two and a half minutes go by very quickly.

Ms. Tattersall, if you could respond in writing, it would be greatly appreciated.

We'll now go to Mr. Johns for two and a half minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

With 98.5% of federal public servants having been vaccinated against COVID-19, I think that's an amazing accomplishment. I strongly support vaccinations continuing, and I urge people to come forward for all of the doses they are eligible for.

With the majority of the public servants now vaccinated and a small portion of public servants who remain unvaccinated, they're eager to return to work from unpaid leave. They're looking for clarity on when the review of the public service vaccine mandates will be complete.

Can you please advise us of the status of the review to date and when you think it will be complete?

I'm even having constituents.... It's about travel, obviously. It's really important. This woman, Kristen, can't get home to the U.K. to see her family. One man, David, just wants to go on a trip and get back on the road to see friends and family.

Maybe you can give us some idea when this is going to be complete.

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

All mandates are being examined. In the examples that you just gave, you gave examples for travellers and for employees, so those are under separate vaccination mandates. The work that Treasury Board Secretariat is currently doing is with Health Canada providing all of the data, looking at the most recent epidemiologic information, and looking at various considerations such as consulting and speaking with bargaining agents, seeking views. We're bringing that to the government, which is taking the decision and can make—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I appreciate it. I just know in my own province people are back to work in the public service. The time is running long here. People need answers, they need an explanation.

In terms of outsourcing, it's become a huge concern under the government with millions being spent on expensive consultants—you hear me talk about this—like McKinsey & Company, which paid out a substantial settlement for advice it gave that played a huge role in the tragic overdose and opioid crisis. Does the strategic review include looking at outsourcing and why this work isn't being done by federal public servants?

[Marie-Chantal Girard]

For the strategic review, my colleague, Madame Boudreau, can answer. Perhaps Madame Tattersall can also speak about outsourcing.

I'll let you determine who goes first.