Government Operations Committee on May 6th, 2022

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Do you know of any colleges similar to yours that are going to start in other provinces to do this type of comparable program?

[Don Bureaux]

Again, I can get you that, Mr. Housefather. I can get that information to you. In terms of the specific pathway program for people who have faced traditional barriers, I can certainly get that to you. Again, for us, that's the critical kind of unanchoring, if you will, pardon the pun, of barriers that people have faced, and to pursue this, it just changes the entire narrative of a community when you see a diverse workforce.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Yes, 100%.

Mr. Mitchell, I read your articles with great interest. I'm going to ask for a succinct answer to this. You mentioned in one of your articles that “In strategy, geography matters. Canada is isolated, which has been a blessing, but it might become a curse should the U.S. turn hostile to our interests and values.”

I assume that's related to isolationism, the attitude the Trump administration took towards NATO and international partnerships, that we should be wary about it and not just rely on the U.S. to defend us. Is that where you were going with that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

If you could answer fairly quickly, we'd appreciate that.

[Paul Mitchell]

I agree with what you say, yes. Even under the Biden administration, we've seen punitive trade policies that were started under the Trump administration continue. Certainly the political circumstances in the United States are very unsettled at the moment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Vignola for six minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us today.

Mr. Bureaux, as a former teacher, I know that partnerships can not only provide the economy with specialized workers in areas where there is a shortage of labour, but also have a positive effect on the retention of young people in school.

Do you have any data on the effect of the pathways to shipbuilding program on the retention of youth under 18 and dropouts?

Are many returning to school as a result of the partnership you have established?

Do you have any figures on workers who didn't like their jobs or couldn't find work in their field and decided to retrain through Pathways to Shipbuilding?

Do you have any data on those three things?

[Don Bureaux]

Yes, we would have data, as I mentioned earlier, on completion rates, on people who apply for programs, complete the programs and go on to work. Beyond that, in terms of our impact on young potential students who are exploring this as a career, I would say that we have less hard data on it but very anecdotal data.

In terms of the number of students in Nova Scotia who now are looking at an ocean-related career, I think the important thing to remember is that, whether it's shipbuilding or beyond, the entire ocean sector has been made better as a result of this workforce strategy to tell a different kind of future in terms of a career in this area. In terms of our work with young potential students and going back into the high schools, one of the things we'd do is put on summer camps, for example. We'd go into the high schools and have students explore the opportunities that this may present.

I'll just finish by saying that our research does tell us that one of the most important influencers on a young person's decision to pursue a particular career remains with the parents. It's the conversations at the supper table that help shape a future career path or learning path for young students. We very much encourage parents to come in and see what's being done. They can tour the facilities and participate in open houses to help inform that conversation at the dinner table.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

Earlier you said that all of the people in your 2020 cohort were hired by Irving Shipbuilding.

How many cohorts have you had so far?

[Don Bureaux]

So far, we have had three cohorts. We're looking at starting a fourth cohort. That's the number we've had so far.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

Were the people in those three cohorts all hired in the shipbuilding industry?

[Don Bureaux]

Yes. I don't have in front of me the exact number, but I can say with confidence that a very large percentage of the individuals did go on and secure employment with the shipbuilding industry.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

To your knowledge, is the retention rate good for people who have been hired in the shipbuilding industry? Are they still there after one year, two years, three years?

[Don Bureaux]

Again, that's a great question. The retention rate is very high. We appreciate with Irving the commitment that they've made to make the workplace a safer workplace, a workplace that recognizes the importance of diversity and a workplace that recognizes the differences in different cultures. We've learned from day one that not only do we have to prepare our students for success. We also have to prepare the workplace for success, through committees and different cultural experiences that create that soft landing for those students. Because of that, the retention rate is high.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much.

In the 10 years since the 2011 announcement, which certainly brought a wave of positivity to Nova Scotia, how many people in total have been trained in your three cohorts?

[Don Bureaux]

We have a number of different program streams. In the stream of the pathways cohort, we've had 65 to date. In other streams, we've had close to 300 trained.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

You mentioned 300 people.

Did I hear you correctly?

[Don Bureaux]

Yes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

In terms of the economy and the gross domestic product of Nova Scotia, are you seeing any benefits from the pathways to shipbuilding program, which is for youth in the shipbuilding industry?

If so, what are those benefits?

[Don Bureaux]

I don't have at my fingertips right now a measure for an economic impact measured as per GDP. I do want to stress that there's actually a third stream too, which is individuals who have pursued our core programming in the trades and other areas and have gone on to work with Irving.

That, in fact, is a harder number to identify. When the shipbuilding contract was first announced 10 years ago, the applications to our college and our general programming like welding and pipefitting just skyrocketed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Robert Gordon Kitchen]

Thank you, Mr. Bureaux. As I indicated to Mr. Mitchell, if you have anything further that you can add to that, by all means, please submit it to the clerk and we will distribute that.

We will now go to Mr. Johns for six minutes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, both, for your important testimony.

Mr. Bureaux, I really appreciate the work you're doing, by the way, in your program.

You talked a lot about under-represented groups and working with the Mi'kmaq. I really appreciate that. Could you talk about some of the barriers some of those students might face, or barriers that under-represented Black and indigenous people might have to entering a program like yours?

[Don Bureaux]

Mr. Johns, thank you for such a great question.

There are a number. Let's begin with financial. The cost of our programming is watched very closely to make sure that our tuition is kept as low as possible, but those financial barriers are still there, so we want to make sure that we're able to provide assistance when it comes to tuition.

Number two would be things like child care and distance to learning. A person who does not have transportation would find it to be a very difficult task to travel to class. We have to be mindful of that. Access to technology is an area that we have to pay particular attention to.

There's one, though, that's more systemic, Mr. Johns, and that is that almost 40% of our learners are the first people in their family ever to go to post-secondary education, and that creates a new norm in that family. As you can imagine, if you have just one individual in the household who receives a post-secondary education, that dramatically changes the norm or the culture of that household.

On the other side, though, with nobody else in the household having experienced post-secondary education, the rhythm of mid-terms and final exams and assignments is not well understood and, therefore, not supported at times.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'm going to go specifically to indigenous children, because there is a connection, I believe. We know indigenous children today are many times more likely to be taken from their families and placed into the foster care system than are non-indigenous children. These children are vulnerable under legacies of colonialism and the illegal taking of these children from their lands and their resources through Canada's residential school system, the sixties scoop and continued systematic removal of children from their families into foster care by provincial governments.

We know that people who have been in care are far more likely to experience homelessness and mental health crises. You talked about the economic opportunities and the changing of the course. Ralph Nilson, the president of Vancouver Island University, offered free tuition for children coming out of care, and that has changed the lives of these youth. Now the B.C. NDP is doing that.

Do you think that Canada could play a role in helping to support, specifically, children coming out of care to end this terrible legacy that we have going on right now? I believe what you're talking about is embedded in the truth and reconciliation calls to action numbers one to nine. Maybe you could speak a bit about the importance of senior levels of government helping these students.

[Don Bureaux]

I know Dr. Nilson well. In fact, I worked with him at Acadia University back in the day, and he's been a mentor of mine.

Towards that end, we offer exactly the same option at NSCC. If an individual has been in care, they can come to NSCC with no tuition being owed to us.

Yes, again, there's absolutely an economic barrier. I think that, nationally, it would perhaps be something we would want to explore. I think that would be an excellent idea. What we're also realizing is the value of having an elder on campus, for example. When our indigenous students face challenges, the colonial system over the past hundred years or more has created norms that our indigenous students haven't experienced, so for us to have an indigenous elder on campus who the student could go to would be invaluable. Also, Mr. Johns, we recognize that cultural symbols are critically important on our campuses.

The third thing I will say is that it's important to take learning to where the learners are. Towards that end, we have actually opened up a learning centre on a first nation community where the students can be exposed to what it means to be a post-secondary student in a safe, welcoming environment on reserve, and then they're able to progress more comfortably into one of our campuses and then on to a career.