Evidence of meeting #20 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
In the 42nd Parliament, there was a pilot project to align the estimates. Mr. Giroux, what was the PBO's feedback on that project?
1:40 p.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
I think that was an interesting experiment in improving or in making genuine efforts to better align the budgets and the estimates process. However, the fact that the estimates were.... The timing was amended. It was not a full success, because the budget kept on being tabled relatively late in the process, in late March or April. It was not a full success, in part for that reason.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Were there concerns over parliamentarians being asked to approve spending before the Treasury Board did?
1:40 p.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
I would say that probably for some there were concerns about that, because then proposals were not fully or rigorously looked at by Treasury Board ministers. However, you also have the same possibility of having Treasury Board ministers scrutinizing the proposed spending after Parliament approves it, so it's not a major concern.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Did that produce results you're advocating now? If not, what could be done differently to achieve them?
1:40 p.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
I think what would probably be most helpful for parliamentarians would be to have a more complete picture of government spending when they are asked to approve spending. Measures of the budget could be included in the main estimates when parliamentarians are asked to approve it, as opposed to having an incomplete picture of the government spending plan.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Going back to parliamentarians, what's their feedback on that?
1:40 p.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
I think most parliamentarians who expressed an opinion, at least that I'm aware of, were happy that the effort was made but not totally satisfied with the result, because for a good part of time the budget still came late in the process and was not fully reflected in the main estimates.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay.
Perhaps we'll now go to our parliamentary precinct and the modernizing of the federal accommodation space, the revitalizing of it. Do you believe there is more funding needed for this project?
1:40 p.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
That's a question that I can, unfortunately, not provide an answer to, because it's not something I have looked at in its entirety over the last several months. I cannot attest to whether more money is likely to be necessary for the parliamentary precinct.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Parm Bains Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Okay. I will pass that time along to my colleagues, if anybody wants it. Those are all the questions I have.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you very much, Mr. Bains.
I'll give 30 seconds extra to Ms. Vignola, who was to have two and a half minutes. I'll give her three minutes, and I'll give Mr. Johns the same.
1:45 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
For several weeks now, the committee has been studying the budget, as you know. For the 2022-2023 year, $7.4 million was allocated to the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer.
Is this enough, given your team's unbelievable workload? I know that your office has approximately 40 employees.
I had previously asked this question and was told that that was the number of full-time staff. It's all very well to talk about the full-time employees, but is the amount enough to do all the work you have to do?
1:45 p.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Thank you for the question.
Honestly, I believe it's enough to fulfil the mandate assigned to us by Parliament. The fact that we have not been spending all of our budget would indicate that we have enough money, at least for the time being.
The funding that has been allocated to us is sufficient for us to perform our role and deal with the requests sent to us. That's in large part a result of the productivity and dedication of our employees.
1:45 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
I believe that everyone acknowledges that.
I would now like to return to the report we were just discussing.
You mentioned that over the coming years, the federal government's budget deficits would be higher than in the outlook described in the 2022 budget.
What were these forecasts based on, since they have not performed as well as anticipated?
1:45 p.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
It's mainly because, apart from the initiatives mentioned, the budget did not include many other commitments, for a variety of reasons determined by the government.
For example, many of the commitments in the electoral platform of the Liberal Party, which forms the government, are not included in the budget. Nor did the budget factor in the pressures exerted by the provincial governments, which wanted more health funding. The budget did not include the commitments made to address these requests, or the government's commitments with respect to increased spending in certain sectors, including national defence, to meet or at least get close to the 2% GDP target.
That's why I suspect the deficit might be higher in years to come, unless taxation is increased to enable the government to meet these budget targets mentioned in the 2022 budget.
1:45 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
The Bank of Canada's key interest rate is rising. No one knows how long it will continue to rise, but we can assume it will.
Will the increase in the key interest rate have an impact on the budget?
Could you give a brief answer?
1:45 p.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
You're being a little harsh by asking me to answer briefly.
1:45 p.m.
Bloc
Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC
As the bells have just begun, I'd like to ask you to send us your response in writing.
1:45 p.m.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Okay.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Robert Gordon Kitchen
Thank you.
We'll now go to Mr. Johns for three minutes.
1:45 p.m.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you again for the work you do, and for being here.
The Minister of Finance said they're going to sell the asset around TMX and make money off it, and that it was actually a financially sound decision.
I think your office will think it's pretty unlikely that the government will actually recover their costs when they sell TMX. Can you talk about how that's been updated, given COVID-19 and the increased costs? We know that they just gave out a loan guarantee for $10 million. Maybe you can spell out how the public is on the hook for this money.