Evidence of meeting #25 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was request.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Maynard  Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Maynard, it's a pleasure to have you here. If memory serves, we met not too long ago at the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, and perhaps even at the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics.

In 2020 or 2021, I believe, the issue of resources and deadlines was raised, and it's been a concern of mine for the past few years. Today, I'm learning that you are successfully resolving 85% of complaints. That's exceptional.

Has the situation improved since the last time we met? Has it gotten worse?

11:15 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

At the Office of the Commissioner, we have made a lot of efforts to improve our processes and become more efficient. Unfortunately, we give institutions less time to respond. There is less back-and-forth in the processing of files, precisely because we want to make sure that we respond to the person who has been waiting for several months. We've set very tight deadlines, and we don't hesitate to go so far as to issue an order. I didn't have that authority prior to 2019. It allows us to deal with a issue when we need to.

In a sense, we don't have more resources, but the pressure we've put on and the efforts we've made to be more efficient have allowed us to do more with fewer people.

I'm really concerned about the access to information units within government institutions. If they're forced to make budget cuts, people won't be able to respond to us during our investigations and there will be additional delays in responding directly to complainants.

In principle, we should not receive complaints. People should receive their response without needing to file a complaint. If there are fewer employees to respond to access to information requests, that will lead to additional delays and more complaints. We have no way of forecasting the number of complaints. We can manage our process, but we can't manage what comes to us from the government. I'm very concerned about what's coming in the next few years.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I agree with that.

Since we're talking about process, what are the benefits of artificial intelligence? Personally, from an ethical standpoint, that worries me a lot, never mind misinformation.

How can AI be used in a positive way, in spite of everything?

Assuming that all the necessary laws have been passed to protect people's identity and privacy, how could that be positive?

We could talk about New Zealand, Estonia and other countries that have good practices.

11:20 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

When it comes to access to information, there should certainly be information triage processes. I'm not talking about creating information with artificial intelligence. That's where I think the challenges or the dangers lie.

I'm talking about artificial intelligence tools to identify documents that are the same, for example. Right now, human beings are doing that. Everything is still done very much by hand in the access to information field. In such an environment, it would certainly be useful to have AI tools to find recurring words or names. For example, when we want to protect a person's name, we have to read the documents line by line right now. You can also do a search, but it still takes a lot longer. Artificial intelligence could be useful in such cases.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I was convinced that this was already being done.

11:20 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

No, it's not done. There are still a lot of people printing documents and doing it by hand.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I can't believe it. Maybe that explains it.

Since time is running out, could you tell me when you plan to release the investigation report on ArriveCAN?

That's the burning question.

11:20 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

That's an extremely complex issue. It's the kind of file where, the more doors are opened, even more doors are opened.

I can't get into the details, but that's really our priority for this year. I had intended to release it by no later than March 31, but I don't know if that will be possible, because we have to verify a lot of critical and complex allegations and pieces of information.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

I have a bit of time left.

In terms of the protecting information, how do you think we should legislate?

Quebec has made significant progress, but on the Canadian side, it's seriously embarrassing.

What regulations do we need to protect real information?

11:20 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

It's hard to say. It's not just about legislating. It's not just the act that will enable us to have a better access to information system.

We really need to change the culture. People have to be proud of the information they produce. Public servants should be proud of the work they do and want to share it so that Canadians understand the decisions that are made and how they were made. The more things people hide, the more questions people have.

Marie-Hélène Gaudreau Bloc Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Information is power. So the more power we want, the more information we keep.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

This is true. We want more power, and we want more info. Before we go to Mr. Brassard, regarding ArriveCAN, was that specifically the investigation into the alleged deleted emails from Minh Doan? Wonderful.

Mr. Brassard, welcome to OGGO.

Mr. Brassard is here from the ethics committee so he can see how a real committee is run.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley

It's a pleasure to have you with us, Mr. Brassard. The floor is yours for five minutes, please.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie South—Innisfil, ON

Please don't take away my time as you insult me, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Madam Commissioner, it's good to see you again. I'll get right at it. In 2003, the ethics committee did a fairly exhaustive study of the Access to Information Act. We had 11 meetings with over 40 witnesses. We made 38 recommendations. Is it safe to say that you were pleased with the work that the ethics committee did in coming up with those recommendations? I know you were part of that process as well.

11:25 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

The recommendations were in line with my recommendations with respect to the act, yes.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie South—Innisfil, ON

Of those 38 recommendations, how many have actually been implemented by the government?

11:25 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

As far as I know, it is none.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie South—Innisfil, ON

In the two years since that study was presented to Parliament, you're confirming that none of those recommendations has been implemented. Is that correct?

11:25 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

The act has not been reopened since 2019, so none of the recommending amendments to the act has been implemented.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie South—Innisfil, ON

Let's go to the act for a second. The Treasury Board has indicated that the legislative review was to begin in 2025—the update to the act. Have you seen or heard of any activity with respect to the act actually being reviewed?

11:25 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

The Treasury Board announced it was going to start the review in June, and nothing has happened since then.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie South—Innisfil, ON

Your office has not been involved, in any way, shape or form, with the Treasury Board on the Access to Information Act review.

11:25 a.m.

Information Commissioner, Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada

Caroline Maynard

I have sent two letters to the President of the Treasury Board since June and haven't received any responses.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie South—Innisfil, ON

When were those letters sent?