Evidence of meeting #28 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
To answer the first part of your question, in marshalling yards, fairly old tracks are relatively common. The situation in Longueuil is not unique across Canada.
As for the second part of your question, I would have to check whether changes have been made. I don't have detailed information on that incident with me today.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I understand that when you raise a problem, like what we saw in Longueuil in 2024, even if you prepare a report, the railway companies are not required to make the recommended changes.
Is that correct?
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
In this specific case, there was no recommendation in the document we published. The document was a deployment summary with our findings at the site. It was a fairly factual document. There was no real analysis. There was no recommendation. We simply recorded the observations we made at the site.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Okay. I'm still surprised, because I feel that when tracks are very worn out, it's just common sense to replace them. I feel that it would have been easy to make a recommendation. Maybe that didn't happen because of the investigation's level of detail.
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
Yes, we deployed to the site and then drafted a document about our findings there. It was made public and is available on our website. However, no detailed investigation was conducted.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
On December 29, there was also a train accident on the Côte‑Nord, in the Schefferville area. We saw some pretty crazy images on social media. I see that this accident and the one involving trucks in the Kamouraska area, which I mentioned earlier, were classified as class 4, or minor accidents. You can go all the way to class 6, but I think a class 4 accident is relatively minor. If not, please correct me.
Do you not do more research because of a lack of resources?
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
An accident that—
Conservative
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
A class 4 accident is not necessarily a minor accident. It's just that we assessed that the opportunities to advance transportation safety were more limited. Therefore, we somewhat limit the scope of the investigation.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kelly McCauley
Thank you.
We'll have enough time, after Mr. Johns and Ms. Rochefort, for two final four-minute interventions from Conservatives and Liberals.
Mr. Johns, welcome back. The floor is yours for five minutes, please.
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to be back at “the mighty OGGO”, as you call it.
I'm really grateful for the work you do at the Transportation Safety Board.
We've had a number of incidents on the west coast. I want to highlight those that are effecting marine spills, especially with cargo shipping units. We had the Hanjin Seattle spill just a few years ago, in 2016, off the coast of Ucluelet, and the Zim Kingston, as you know, near Victoria. Each time, first nations, local governments, provincial governments, ENGOs and NGOs do the cleanup. There's a jurisdictional quagmire. We don't have an “oil response” type of system set up to respond.
The Transportation Safety Board released a report around the Zim Kingston. I don't know why they didn't around Hanjin Seattle—maybe I'm incorrect, but I can't find it. It cited, “The occurrence involving the ZIM Kingston demonstrated some of the challenges involved in responding to a marine emergency in Canadian waters. It also raised questions about the availability and capability of Canadian resources”.
In fact, it cited that Canada's preparedness for other types of marine emergencies, such as those involving hazardous and noxious substances, is a huge concern, as well as that Canada doesn't have a plan on how to respond to those occurrences involving the hazardous and noxious substances. The overall finding was that, if Canada is not prepared to respond to marine emergencies in Canadian waters, there's a risk that these emergencies won't be managed in a timely and effective manner, and this will endanger vessels, their crew, the environment, and the health and safety of Canadians. I would add to that the economy, because we rely on the blue economy on the west coast, and these threats are significant to our food security and our way of life.
Is it frustrating when you make these recommendations and you see no changes? Are you seeing an increase in marine debris spills on the west coast, given that we've seen, obviously, more dangerous weather from climate change and, of course, increased traffic at the port of Vancouver? Could you give some insight on that?
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
Regarding the first part of your question, we didn't issue recommendations as part of the Zim Kingston investigation. We issued what we call a “board concern”, which is a way for us to flag a safety deficiency when we have limited information to assess the risk in a certain situation.
In the case of the Zim Kingston, that's what we did. You're absolutely right that these are the issues we flagged, which is why, a few years later, we decided to launch what we call a class 1 safety issues investigation.
A safety issues investigation is basically a study that we conduct on emergency preparedness for Canada. We launched it this summer; it's already well advanced. Our goal is to interact with port authorities, first nations, operators and regulators to identify what can be improved in terms of Canada's preparedness for marine emergencies, shipboard fires and all that. We're looking at all of these issues.
In the case of the Zim Kingston, there was a fire on board. The accident highlighted these risks, which is why we are currently looking deeper into it.
NDP
Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC
I appreciate that, and I appreciate that you're checking on the pulse of things on the ground, because this is a big issue on the west coast. We have the longest coastline in the world, and we hope that Transport Canada responds.
There have been multiple incidents in Tofino harbour. It often happens in rural communities that you have float planes colliding with marine vessels. We had Nuu-chah-nulth asking for action on this. We've had multiple meetings. We have not seen any changes despite multiple incidents in which people have died and some people have been injured.
You're independent, so when you see incidents such as these, and you come back to the same scene in small communities but don't see action, at what point do you say to government, “We need action and we're not getting it?” How can you get that message through to Transport Canada?
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
The traffic around the Tofino harbour and the Vancouver harbour—there is a lot of traffic in that area as well—is something we are aware of. It is a subject that routinely comes up when we talk with stakeholders. When we go to the west coast, we speak with people on the ground.
NDP
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
It is a subject that a lot of people in the industry are talking to us about. When it comes up, we will, of course, flag it through our investigations and identify the potential risks and, eventually, what can potentially be done to fix it. It is something we're aware of.
Conservative
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Good afternoon.
I have a quick question about the International Civil Aviation Organization, to which I understand Canada is a signatory. Do they ever provide any comments about the work you do in Canada?
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
To clarify your question, is it whether the ICAO has provided—
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Do they ever comment on the quality of your work or the lack of coverage on certain issues?
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
Canada went through an audit from the international civil aviation authority just a few years ago. As part of that audit, there were a number of items identified by ICAO for the state to address. The TSB was a small part of the audit, but we were still in it. From the TSB's point of view, there were really only a few items we had to address. We ended up with a very high score, which means that, for the most part, we meet our international obligations when it comes to conducting air investigations.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
Are there many countries that are signatories to this agreement around the world?
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
The vast majority of them are.
Liberal
Pauline Rochefort Liberal Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON
It speaks well to the Transportation Safety Board and your work when they provide an audit that is very strong.
Chair, Canadian Transportation Accident Investigation and Safety Board
We felt the TSB had good results in the audit. There were a few items, but we addressed them quite easily.