Evidence of meeting #48 for Health in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conveyance.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert Clarke  Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada
Dennis Brodie  Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada
Howard Njoo  Director General, Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Public Health Agency of Canada
John Cuningham  Senior Counsel, Public Health Agency of Canada

4:10 p.m.

NDP

Penny Priddy NDP Surrey North, BC

I understand sharing surveillance information. I'm sorry, but I know. But is the direction ever to mandate it, because I actually don't believe volunteering. I don't know. I love volunteering, but somehow somebody always doesn't do so in the end. So is it heading towards mandatory? Because this is mandatory.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

That will be the last question. Go ahead if you have a quick answer on that.

4:10 p.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Robert Clarke

We do have reportable diseases in Canada, and we actively review those reportable diseases.

Again, as I mentioned, there are ongoing discussions about improving, but there is a provincial jurisdiction here that has to be respected, so we have to work within the guidelines that are there.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

Mr. Batters, the floor is yours for five minutes.

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'd like to thank the public health officials for being here today to answer our questions on Bill C-42.

I'm still in the learning process on Bill C-42, so maybe you guys can help me out a little bit. Proposed paragraph 34(1)(a) specifies specifically “a watercraft or aircraft that is used in the business of carrying persons or cargo”, and proposed paragraph 34(1)(b) says “a prescribed conveyance”. Where do I find this list of prescribed conveyances?

4:10 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

Maybe I could answer that.

A prescribed conveyance would be a conveyance that would be prescribed by the Governor in Council, through a regulation. If you look at section 62 of the Quarantine Act—and I'm not sure whether you have the actual Quarantine Act in front of you—

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK

I don't think so.

4:15 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

Let me tell you what it says in section 62, which is under the heading “ Regulations”:

The Governor in Council may make regulations

—and then there's a list of topics—

...(n) respecting anything that may be prescribed under this Act....

So it would take a regulation made by the Governor in Council to include land conveyances or any other type of conveyance under the reporting requirement.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK

Sir, you are telling me that the Governor in Council has to make regulations. But as we sit here right now, section 34, as I read it, is going to apply only to conveyances involving watercraft or aircraft that are used in the business of carrying persons or cargo--unless you can tell me that there are regulations currently being drafted by the Governor in Council. And if that is so, can you describe them and explain when they're likely to be tabled?

I understand that under the new Quarantine Act, the Governor in Council has the authority to make regulations--including those regarding the information to be provided by the operator of a conveyance--under paragraph 62(e) and respecting the protection of personal information. Maybe you can respond to that. Are there regulations currently being drafted by the Governor in Council as to what a prescribed conveyance is? This is all incredibly vague to me.

4:15 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

No, there are currently no plans to draft regulations that would prescribe the different types, other than aircraft or watercraft conveyances, that would have to report in advance.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK

So let's get down to brass tacks here. I'm picking up on Ms. Brown's questioning. As we sit here right now, Bill C-42 will apply, and the change we're making is that it will limit advanced reporting obligations to air and marine conveyances, which is different from just reporting obligations.

4:15 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

That's right.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK

It's going to limit advanced reporting obligations to air and marine conveyances. So for advanced reporting, trains and buses right now would not be covered? I have a problem with that.

4:15 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

They have never been covered, in fact, and they are not required to be covered under international health regulations, for the reasons we've talked about. I think there are pretty solid reasons to exclude them at the present time, but if in the future the risk environment changes, then through a regulation the Governor in Council could make a regulation.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Dave Batters Conservative Palliser, SK

Do you gentlemen have any insight into how many people enter Canada each day by air, water, and land respectively? Also, in terms of land travel, what proportion is for train, bus, or car travellers? I'd like an indication of how many people come into this country daily by air and by water versus how many people come into this country by land--by bus, train, or car.

4:15 p.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Robert Clarke

I have some statistics here. There are approximately 266,000 travellers a day coming in through 119 land border crossings, stations, or the 13 international airports. We can break that down further for you and get back to you.

In terms of vehicles, in 2005 to 2006, 36.5 million vehicles crossed into Canada, of which 81%, or around 29 million, were cars.

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you very much.

Ms. Kadis.

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a question for Dr. Clarke or Mr. Brodie. When this proposed legislation or amendment and this government appear to very clearly want to reduce the reporting requirements, how likely is it that a minister will prescribe those for other conveyances, including land? And isn't it better that we know before they hit the border, for example, as opposed to when they reach the border? Isn't that the whole idea?

4:15 p.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Robert Clarke

This is all based on the risk assessment of diseases and the disease status of people coming by land travel.

As you mentioned, if that risk assessment changed, then it would be appropriate to change the reporting requirements, but we feel at the present time, with the current disease status in the United States and in Canada, that it is not warranted. But that could change, and if that happens, there is provision in this bill to amend the regulations.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

I spoke in Parliament to Bill C-12 originally--and felt very strongly about it, as most people did, I believe, in the House in general--in response to the changes that had taken place, such as those regarding SARS, etc., and potential threats globally. I'm not yet hearing any rationale as to why we would dilute the act, and I'm not being convinced that we should.

You're in one sense talking about strengthening or implying that you want to strengthen the act, which would be something that would be very highly supportable, but on the other hand, it seems to be completely contradictory to now delete some of these opportunities to catch potential illness and threats.

4:20 p.m.

Director General, Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Howard Njoo

The other way to look at this is that the requirement is there for all operators of all conveyances to report and for the passengers as well to self-declare illness at the border. This advance reporting requirement is an additional practical measure so we can make the best possible arrangements for people arriving by air and marine transport in advance of their arrival to make the necessary arrangements for the appropriate follow-up so they can get the best medical attention.

The problem, to be honest with you, if you want to get into the whole issue of land conveyances, is, as I've said, in many practical senses it's not possible. For example, there are multiple bus operators all around North America. To talk about all the types of routes and points where they could cross, you would then have to have multiple phone numbers for them to contact in advance, and then what exactly would they be reporting? The most common type of illness most people would have would be something like a cold or a respiratory illness. Can you imagine a busload of folks where the bus operator would be reporting or trying to contact a border official because some of the people have a cold?

Then what happens is that people may be standing up, we might get the whole system activated, and then before they even arrive their condition worsens and they disembark and get to a local hospital. So the people at the border might be waiting for someone who never arrives because they're actually practically managed even before they get to the border.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

Thank you.

I'd like to clarify if our panel agreed with the original act as it currently stands, if they provided input, and if they supported it initially--Bill C-12.

4:20 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

As one of the people who worked on the bill at the time, certainly I supported it. Once you got into figuring out how exactly we were going to implement this, that's where we discovered there was a problem.

4:20 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

I think the issue is whether we are compromising. Dr. Clarke, are we potentially compromising safety in any way by deleting the land conveyance, by restricting the opportunities to catch potential communicable diseases before they affect our Canadian population?

4:20 p.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Robert Clarke

No, in my opinion, we're not. If I thought we were, I wouldn't be saying what I'm saying.

I think we have extensive collaboration with the United States and other countries on the status of various diseases. We know what each country has, so we're quite confident that these measures are appropriate.