Evidence of meeting #48 for Health in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conveyance.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert Clarke  Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada
Dennis Brodie  Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada
Howard Njoo  Director General, Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Public Health Agency of Canada
John Cuningham  Senior Counsel, Public Health Agency of Canada

4:40 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

It is being enforced today.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

No, when was the last time it was exercised?

4:40 p.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Robert Clarke

I have some information. Between January and February of this year we did 44 health assessments under the Quarantine Act: 19 were done in Toronto, 15 in Vancouver, eight in Calgary, two in Montreal, and one in Halifax. We get approximately 20 of these incidents a month. We're actually doing assessments.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

So assessments are being done of sick people who come in on planes or boats. That's good to know.

Provinces have quarantine acts as well. Are they all the same, or is each province different?

4:45 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

Each province is different. Some provinces have updated their legislation--Ontario and Nova Scotia. Some provinces haven't. Their legislation is quite old.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Does this act supercede the provinces' acts, or do they work completely autonomous of each other?

4:45 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

No. This act only applies to travellers in conveyances arriving in or departing from Canada. Once you're in Canada the provincial public health legislation applies.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

I was a little surprised to see diseases like the flu and measles listed in the act. It seems to me that applying that to a landing would be a considerable job, would it not? Some of these diseases are commonplace in every schoolyard in the country.

4:45 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

The difference is that they have to represent a risk of significant harm to public health. So if you look at the definition of communicable disease—

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

You would have to determine that.

4:45 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

That's the threshold that has to be met.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

I just saw the diseases, and it seemed really strange that they would be listed. They are very common diseases. In fact, the flu is more of an inconvenience.

4:45 p.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Robert Clarke

In the case of a flu, if you are in a situation in which you have a very deadly flu virus being transmitted, that's obviously the intent.

4:45 p.m.

Manager, Legislative and Regulatory Policy Group, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dennis Brodie

If I could just follow up on that, though, the flu in that case is pandemic flu, not the everyday, run-of-the-mill flu.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Is that defined in there? Yes? Okay, fair enough.

Those are the questions I had, just to clear up where we're going with it.

We're now into round two, and we'll hear from Mr. Fletcher, then Ms. Kadis.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Steven Fletcher Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia, MB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the questions on this. I think everyone on the committee really wants to do the right thing here.

As I see this, the act has been passed. In the implementation of the act, the people who are responsible for doing that have noticed some challenges in that. These amendments are being brought forward to improve the ability of the government to implement quarantine measures when necessary, and that's based on experience.

I think public health officials and the bureaucracy, if you like, are in the best position to make that assessment. That assessment has been made and the recommendations have been brought forward. They're before Parliament, and this committee needs to review them and get on with doing the best thing for the country. This is the best expert testimony that we have, so I'm not sure what the goal of some of the members of the committee is by delaying possible third reading of this bill.

The other question I would have is on the practical application of land conveyances. With air and marine, we have a certain number of international airports and a smaller number of international ports. There must be thousands of land crossings and dozens of ways in which those crossings are utilized. The practicality of dealing with them in the act seems very difficult, though the ability does exist if the risk changes—and this is also very much a risk assessment.

We have learned from experience. SARS is an excellent example, in that the risk from Southeast Asia is far greater than it is from South Dakota or any of the states, so I wonder what the goal of the members is.

I wonder if the witnesses can comment on the discussion that they have heard here, and if there's anything they can add to alleviate the genuine concerns of the members, but also to expedite this. I think you guys have been stymied over two or three federal elections now, so it would be helpful just to get this going. This would be an excellent opportunity to address the concerns that are being raised by the opposition, so I wonder if you guys could just help us out with expediting this.

4:50 p.m.

Senior Counsel, Public Health Agency of Canada

John Cuningham

I can add one thing that hasn't been mentioned to date, and that is just with respect to dealing with the other prescribed conveyances. As was noted, regulations could be made to deal with land conveyances if the risk profile changed. I would just note that under section 60 of the Quarantine Act, the minister may make interim emergency orders to bring these kinds of regulations into effect very quickly, with subsequent oversight by the parliamentary process or the regulatory process, as appropriate. That's one other point that hasn't been mentioned today.

4:50 p.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Robert Clarke

The other thing to keep in mind is our compliance with the International Health Regulations. Globally, there has been a tremendous amount of effort to try to have a common view and a common approach to these things, not just to facilitate the movement of people, but also to facilitate the reporting and control of diseases.

We work very hard to try to work with our international partners and the WHO to develop common approaches like the International Health Regulations, so it is our feeling that complying with them is very important. If we stand out as the only country in the world that's going to take a different approach, that does have ramifications for us in terms of the International Health Regulations.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Rob Merrifield

Thank you.

Ms. Kadis.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Before I ask my question, I just want to confirm that we'll be receiving information as to how many people are entering Canada from the U.S. as well as from the rest of the world, so that we can have something to compare when we're looking again at this issue of deleting land conveyance reporting requirements.

Also, I'd like to ask you something. If someone comes from, for example, overseas with a communicable disease and happens to go via the United States and then comes by land to Canada, is that not a consideration that would warrant our keeping this inclusion of reporting for land conveyance such as trains, buses, etc.?

4:50 p.m.

Deputy Chief Public Health Officer, Infectious Disease and Emergency Preparedness, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Robert Clarke

If someone flew into the United States from another country, they would go through a similar kind of reporting mechanism that we are talking about here. If by chance that person wasn't ill when they flew into the United States but they developed symptoms after they arrived in the United States, and then they were coming to the border, our border agent, if he noticed the person was ill, could refer them to a quarantine officer for further medical examination.

If by chance the person at that point when they were coming was still asymptomatic but became ill once they entered Canada, then when they sought medical attention at the emergency ward, or wherever they would go, it would be incumbent on the physician there to notify the Public Health Agency or other officials if they thought this was a communicable disease that required further attention. We think those situations would be covered.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

Could you elaborate briefly on the quarantine officers? There isn't a lot of detail in here as to how many, where they would be, their training, costs, etc. I guess it represents a change again from the original act, another amendment that you're proposing, which you believe will enhance it. We have it before us today to deal with it, but we really don't have a lot of information as to what that really entails.

4:50 p.m.

Director General, Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Howard Njoo

In terms of the quarantine program, when we talk about quarantine officers, they're trained health professionals. By and large, they tend to be nurses by training, and certainly they've been trained to recognize and look for the symptoms of infectious diseases.

However, we recognize there are practical limits in terms of having quarantine officers everywhere along the border; therefore, under the Quarantine Act--and my colleagues can add to that--we've also engaged our other colleagues such as customs officials. They have some basic training, so that if they encounter an individual trying to enter Canada who shows any symptoms that may be consistent with an infectious disease and may pose a public health risk, they would make contact with our quarantine program. Then our trained professionals would step in and do their own personal medical assessment and, if necessary, refer it for a more complete assessment in a hospital.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Kadis Liberal Thornhill, ON

This is a new layer, I guess. It would mean new people and not a reallocation of other people--or would this be new people?

4:55 p.m.

Director General, Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. Howard Njoo

We've hired new people. The quarantine program has grown in recent years because of the emerging situation based on SARS and so on. Our quarantine program now certainly has expanded compared to what it was ten years ago.