Evidence of meeting #24 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
I only wanted to check. Thank you.
Is there more debate? Ms. Murray.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
I understand that the key concern here is resource implications, that it would cost more to adopt this clause than not.
We have schedule 2, which has 14 types of products that are prohibited. Item 14 is lawn darts with elongated tips. I think we're concerned about carcinogens and reproductive toxins--I certainly am--more than lawn darts.
Mr. Glover, you were saying that each jurisdiction is expected to create its own list and not go based on the IARC list. Are there jurisdictions that have essentially adopted that list, or a revised subset of that list, in their legislation to reduce these kinds of toxins and goods?
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
We are not aware of any other jurisdictions that have gone quite this far with respect to this particular approach, that would be comparable in terms of the regulatory framework the Government of Canada would have to operate under.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
I was actually asking if any other jurisdictions have based their list of substances on agents or groups of agents on the IARC list.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
There are none that I am aware of at this time.
We are aware of what is going on in California with respect to their approach to labelling. They have a very different regulatory regime. There is no enforcement; that aspect is left to the civil court. It's a completely different framework. It essentially leaves the industry to label or not, and then citizens who are concerned about it turn to the courts to deal with it. They have a framework that doesn't seem to.... There are some differences.
We would acknowledge your point about other jurisdictions doing this, but they are not comparable in terms of the obligations that this would create for the Department of Health with respect to enforcement.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
They are going to a list of substances, as opposed to a short list of product types, to protect the public from carcinogens and reproductive toxins and other toxins.
4:45 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
We acknowledge what California is doing; the enforcement is radically different.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Mr. Glover made another comment when talking about CEPA. It was to the effect that CEPA can deal with this, but we know that it can take years to pull something out of general use under CEPA, especially substances of concern like carcinogens, to which cumulative exposure is the problem. As with tobacco, it really takes years to overcome some of the pressure to continue using those substances. This is a more precautionary approach, particularly with children. It seems to us that the reputation CEPA has of being a very slow, arduous process of addressing chemicals, just as a sidebar--
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
I'm making the comment that CEPA isn't good enough when it comes to babies being exposed to carcinogens.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
How quickly will CEPA act in the case of micro amounts of toxins in the breast milk and in the baby? People are concerned about that. In Vancouver we've had a survey of what's in women's breast milk; there is an unbelievable scope and level of toxicity from the various kinds of cumulative exposures that people have, and it goes directly into babies.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
We're just trying to address that and not wait for the onerous--
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
There are two elements.
First, we understand the reputation that CEPA had. The reputation that CEPA is developing is one of being much more nimble and much quicker.
I would also return to the chemicals management plan. As a result of a parliamentary committee's direction to the Department of Health and the Department of the Environment to prioritize 23,000 substances, the departments did that. Now there is a set of priorities on concerns for health and the environment on a broad range of health end points.
In the past it would have taken the department between five and ten years to do an assessment, the average being seven, and we acknowledge that. They were doing about a handful of assessments a year. Since the chemicals management plan was launched, we've been doing 15 substances every quarter--
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
We are looking at all the exposure pathways, with the onus on industry. It has rapidly accelerated the pace at which we are able to move through those substances. We will be through the top 500 priority substances very quickly, so CEPA is moving more quickly to do these assessments as it moves forward.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Ms. Murray, would you allow Mr. Dufour to ask some questions now, or do you want to carry on?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Nicolas Dufour Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I have listened with great interest. I would like to check with the officials to see if there is already something that does the same job as the amendment, or whether there is another way to solve the problem other than with the amendment.
4:50 p.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Madam Chair, it is generally accepted and it is already in CEPA. This is a duplication of something that already exists.
4:50 p.m.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I know the chemicals management plan has had a lot of work, but has it actually led to many products being moved off the market or off the shelves?