Health Committee on Sept. 28th, 2009

[Daniel Lavoie]

To adjust, yes.

[Hélène Laurendeau]

The only thing I would add is that although you can reach a certain rate of absenteeism in a pandemic, all will not likely reach that rate at the same time. The workforce will be in and out of the workplace.

That is what the planning of critical services is all about, to make sure what level of people is required in the workplace for critical services. Then around that, the departments, particularly the 24/7 departments, the people who are operating around the clock, have a good idea of what is the lowest number—not the ideal number—of people needed to deliver key services. They have a very good idea of the number needed to actually be able to deliver the services. Then you can think about your redeployment strategy around that.

So I think it's safe to say, particularly for the 24/7 departments, that from the various experiences in the past, ranging from strikes to other crises that hit locally, such as floods in Winnipeg, the ice storm, and the power shortage in Ontario, they have been able to build their capacity to know what is the lowest number of people needed to actually provide the services. Then you plan around the evolution of your absentees.

We also have to understand that the summertime is a controlled environment, with a lot people not being in the workplace, so there is some knowledge built around that. It's on that basis that people are building and planning around the critical services.

So throwing out figures of 30% or 40% may sound high, but knowing that all of the absenteeism won't be at the same time and that we are able to operate on both good and bad days without 100% of the workforce, we are able to narrow down what we really need in the remaining range.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Ms. Laurendeau.

We'll now go to Dr. Bennett.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thanks very much.

Thank you for being here.

I too am a little concerned about the vagueness of the words “probably me” and “I assume”, and all of those things. I think it's not exactly confidence-building in terms of what would be an incident command sensibility.

Once again I would like to know, from what we learned in the spring, who actually in the Government of Canada is in charge of making sure we learned the lessons from the spring and summer and that we will do better this fall.

[Daniel Lavoie]

Public Safety is.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

So that would be Minister Day.

[Daniel Lavoie]

No, Minister Van Loan.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Minister Van Loan. Well, I guess that's quite true.

So has there been an official lessons learned process from the spring? Marcia Anderson, president of the Indigenous Physicians Association, suggested there needed to be a quick lessons learned task force, in particular on what happened in Manitoba. Have you done a formal assessment of the experience in the spring and the summer?

[Daniel Lavoie]

What we have done is in the context of a committee that I co-chair. We have looked at how the machinery of government reacted to the H1N1 wave in the spring. We identified six or seven areas where we really needed to invest our time and energy over the summer.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

And money?

[Daniel Lavoie]

No, not really money, not in the context of the federal coordination and our own individual response. In the context of the Public Health Agency and Health Canada, it's different story; but from a structural point of view of the organization of the Government of Canada, there was not really a need for money. It was more to refine the systems.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Okay, so say all of a sudden it becomes really bad and there just aren't enough ventilators, respirators, and oscillators in the country. Is it viewed as an issue of public safety for the country if a doctor is having to decide who gets one and who doesn't?

[Daniel Lavoie]

Public Safety Canada has no expertise in providing guidance on—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

But if people are actually dying because there aren't enough ventilators, who is responsible in the Government of Canada?

[Daniel Lavoie]

If there are not enough ventilators and there's a need to urgently purchase ventilators, there is a process that will allow that.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

You?

[Daniel Lavoie]

Yes, we and Public Works and Government Services will work together supporting the needs of the Public Health Agency of Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I just want to caution the committee that we brought you here today for talking about parliamentarians, the government, what we can do on Parliament Hill—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

No, parliamentarians aren't here, dear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Excuse me.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

We don't have the House of Commons here. This is only about how the government works and where the—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

No, excuse me, we passed a motion where we wanted everyone to come—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Sorry, we don't have those witnesses here, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I know, Dr. Bennett, but today we haven't asked them to talk about the whole government situation with the whole population. We're going to be doing that next day. We need to focus on what we're wanting to do as a Parliament.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Madam Chair, I'm just looking at the organization chart, because I think we're confused as to where the buck stops if there's seriously an emergency. In an aboriginal community, if the water treatment plant is gone and those people are all sick, who goes in? Do you treat it like a forest fire, like an ice storm? Does the buck stop with you when you have the lives of Canadians at risk?