Health Committee on Sept. 28th, 2009

[Daniel Lavoie]

I missed the spring.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

When H1N1 hit, did any departments start to roll out their plans? If so, what was the learning from that?

[Daniel Lavoie]

In the spring when the first wave of H1N1 hit, there was not a big scramble in the Government of Canada because the government has a pandemic and avian influenza plan that we started developing in 2006 . At that time we asked each department to develop their own pandemic annexes. So I don't know how many implemented it, but it's logical to assume that most of them went to their plans, because we heard a lot of questions about that in the spring and we were able to follow--

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you.

As a scientist I have trouble with the word “assume”. I would really like to know how many have plans, how many needed to roll out their plans in the spring, and how many have updated the plans. I understand it is a rapidly evolving situation, but what was learned from the spring? Have the employees been educated on what was learned, and has this been drilled and rolled out to people?

[Daniel Lavoie]

The short answer to your question is yes, there has been learning. People have updated their plans. We have a sense that about 90% of the departments--

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

We can't have the sense; we need to have real numbers.

I guess I'm also concerned because you've told me there's the health side of this and there's the public safety. Ultimately, where does the buck stop?

[Daniel Lavoie]

For what?

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Who makes the tough decisions?

[Daniel Lavoie]

The tough decisions for what?

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

If we have a more severe second wave, with whom does the ultimate responsibility for these 80 departments and 500,000 people rest?

[Daniel Lavoie]

The scenarios are multiple, and it would be easy to say it's the minister of this or the minister of that. It is very much aligned with the situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Mr. Lavoie.

We'll now go to Monsieur Malo.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for being here today.

I would like to come back to Ms. Duncan's question. You do not seem to know exactly whether everyone has emergency and business continuity plans. If you do not know, is there someone who does?

[Daniel Lavoie]

We reviewed the plans of more than 80 departments and agencies. We know that those plans exist and that they have been improved. In our view, 90% of these plans are satisfactory and have been updated over the summer.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Does that mean that there are still agencies or sections that do not have a plan?

[Daniel Lavoie]

I have not received any requests from people who have suddenly realized what is going on and who are saying that they need a plan. I should point out that the Emergency Management Act requires every department to prepare plans for the agencies under its direction. That was a responsibility that was consistent with the preparedness act; it existed in 1996. Things have evolved.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

To your knowledge, everyone has complied with the Emergency Management Act and has prepared a plan?

[Daniel Lavoie]

Yes. There are two things. First, under the law, everyone is required to have a business continuity plan. Second, there is an appendix on pandemic response. We initiated those efforts in 2006. The outcome has been very positive: people have taken this seriously and developed plans.

I cannot tell you whether everyone has a plan, but it is our impression that all of the departments and many agencies have one. We made it very clear that deputy ministers were responsible with respect to agency heads under their department's direction.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Is it someone's responsibility to ensure that everyone has a plan?

[Daniel Lavoie]

We are in the process of doing that.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Fine.

You gave a few examples of essential services, but is there a comprehensive list?

[Daniel Lavoie]

Not yet, but one is being developed. The sudden appearance of H1N1 forced us to accelerate the development of certain tools. That is one of the things we had to do. If the same thing happened in 2002 or 2003, this work would not even have begun. So we have made progress thanks to the preparation that was begun in 2006.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

What was the deadline you had set before the H1N1 virus broke out?

[Daniel Lavoie]

In 2006, we had asked the departments and agencies to develop a pandemic plan together with their plan to ensure the continuity of operations. Thus, in the spring, this allowed us to manage the H1N1 crisis in quite an organized manner. During the summer, we realized that should there be a second wave, we had to define essential services. One of the lessons learned during the first wave was precisely to ask ourselves how we would deal with essential services if the situation were to get worse. Are we ready to deal with essential services? That is when we began to define what we meant by essential services.

As I said, 90% of the departments and agencies reviewed seem to have solid plans allowing them to deal with problems.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

If I understand correctly, if things got really bad, this could mean that a certain number of services would have to be set aside and that staff would be reassigned to essential services.