Health Committee on Feb. 17th, 2011

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Sure. Yes, please do.

[Garth Whyte]

In your package is “Where Canadians Source Their Meals”. There you see 10% of the meals are purchased at restaurants. If this committee thinks they're going to solve the sodium problem through restaurants only, you have a big challenge, number one. The salt shaker example is talking about how do we educate Canadians, period. And I totally agree with the Healthy Living Alliance from B.C. We need a comprehensive look at all these things, from the manufacturing of food to all the different...the whole level, the whole food chain. I think we really have to look at this.

Secondly, about taxing of food, we already do. Whenever you do it, you have to be careful what you do. You should ask why is milk consumption flat and declining? Why is that happening? The committee should look into that, because we certainly talk a lot about it in the agriculture committee, because of supply management and what the cost of milk is and dairy products. Look into that.

We certainly talk about, when we go to Finance, taxing the food...on HST and food exemption in stores versus in our establishments. That's another taxing policy that's currently in place that has shifted eating habits. There are all sorts of things. So please be careful when you pick one over another. Look at it from a holistic point of view. Just look at commercials, like delivery. Look at those things and the different policies that have been put in place that have changed consumption patterns.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thanks very much.

I'd like to ask the chiropractic association.... We're hearing more about teams being set up to supply medical services to communities--health teams. Are you included in these health teams? Are you part of them in most areas or in any areas?

[Eleanor White]

I can speak best to Ontario because that's where I'm from, and before being with the Canadian Chiropractic Association, I was with the Ontario one, so I was involved with it somewhat.

At the moment, in Ontario, musculoskeletal is not represented on family health teams. You don't have physios or chiros being included in the set-up. You have podiatrists, midwives, naturopaths, you name it, but not MSK. It's interesting that the World Health Organization will be launching it's non-communicable diseases initiative in the coming year, where they have found that, lo and behold, a large part of disability is not coming from infectious disease, but it's coming from chronic MSK disability.

There needs to be a greater inference and a greater importance put on the treatment of MSK, and it should be included in the teams as a whole. At the moment, it is still separate. We are involved in some pockets, and we have had to pay our way in and pay our own staff. We put people in. We do it as a research project. We're in St. Michael's. There's going to be a second, larger, institute in St. Michael's.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Are you, in any province, included in the family health teams?

[Eleanor White]

Not directly. There are pockets, again, in B.C., Alberta, Quebec, and Ontario. There are some in the east as well. But, again, they're pockets. They're subsidized. I think the first one that has been covered—

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Tim Uppal]

Thank you, Ms. Davidson.

Madame Beaudin.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome everyone.

First, I have a question for you, Ms. Côté, since you are an expert in nutrition as well as communication. What I find disturbing is the realization that, in the immediate term, we may have actually had very little impact when it comes to changing our environment and the foods we consume.

One of your three recommendations deals with prevention measures for children. And that is certainly important in changing our eating habits. Something else that concerns me are low-income families and families with low-level reading skills. You also mentioned that earlier. There is, of course, a tendency to buy products whose prices are significantly reduced, and these families will often opt for a litre of Coke over a litre of milk, because the pop costs them a bit less to put on the table.

Do you think we should focus more on prevention strategies for children by teaching them about foods that are good for them? You mentioned enjoyment. Would reintroducing the joy of eating also have a positive impact on them?

[Stéphanie Côté]

Yes, we really need to start with children and, preferably, as early as possible. We should start food education when they are preschoolers, familiarizing them with foods and getting them involved in food preparation, with a focus on the joy that goes along with that. We should be careful not to emphasize the dichotomy between good and bad foods. That is key.

We need to keep up that kind of education as children get older, from preschool through elementary school and then into high school, so that they build food skills throughout their development. Clearly, educating children is key in order to have the biggest impact we can on the younger generation. That said, parents obviously have a role to play in that education. And ideally, there would be a continuity between what is being taught in child care facilities, whether it be at school or at day care, and what is being taught at home, because parents are crucial in terms of leading by example. They pass their eating habits and attitudes towards food on to their children. The approach really needs to be holistic. We need to work with children, yes, but we also need to work with the adults in their lives, and that includes parents.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Today, there is talk of putting a surtax on certain products, and some witnesses have also been in favour of that. As someone who is involved in diet-related communication, do you believe we should also favour healthy products? We don't want people to smoke, we focus on products that are bad for you and we want to stop those kinds of behaviours by focusing on the negative aspects, but if we favoured good food choices by putting the right products at the right height on supermarket shelves, would it make a difference?

[Stéphanie Côté]

Yes, we need to make more nutritious products more accessible, not just in terms of their shelf space in supermarkets, but also in terms of advertising. Many of the ads out there today promote foods with low nutritious content, to the detriment of those that are more nutritious. So we certainly have a lot of work to do in that respect. Not only do we need to present more nutritious food choices in a more appealing manner, but we also need to make them more available. There was a discussion earlier about unhealthy foods at checkout counters. That could be a good spot to promote healthier food choices.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Wonderful. Thank you.

I have no more questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Tim Uppal]

Thank you.

Mr. Norlock.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm about to suggest something that may give you some ideas. I'm going to ask you all a question, and I hope you keep the answer short.

We tax the bejabbers out of tobacco and what do we get? We get a huge black market so that kids can buy cigarettes almost in the schoolyard for less than 5¢ a piece. I'm all for taxation of tobacco, but we have to get the right level.

Most of the first nations territories, and in the territories I worked in along James Bay and Hudson Bay, don't permit alcohol. What do they do? They sniff gas and stuff. I'm not against taxing all those other things, but I am about trying to find solutions.

We can tax the bejabbers out of salt and sugar and all those other things, and we talk about taxes, but I don't care what government or where, if they put too much tax on, they're out and somebody else comes in.

I have a novel idea to help raise money for the Cancer Society and to help promote good ideas, and the Canadian Chiropractic Association might have the answer for me. When I go shopping for a mattress, I see on the mattress that it might be approved by the Canadian Chiropractic Association. Am I right that you wouldn't permit that logo to go on there unless you stood behind the product?

[Eleanor White]

Correct. We only have one.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Do you get any money from that?

[Eleanor White]

They contribute to the research foundation.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

That's good. Yes, you do, right?

Okay. I also see that the Dental Association raises money, I suspect in the same way, by putting their label on toothpaste. The Canadian Chiropractic, the Heart and Stroke Foundation--I believe Madame Côté, in response to Mr. Malo or somebody, mentioned that the Heart and Stroke Foundation allows their labels to go on some of them.

[Heather Chappell]

Yes, the health check logo.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

Yes, they do, but I don't know if they get any money from it.

I know my wife looks for certain products that are approved by the Canadian Dermatology Association. Here's a novel idea for the Canadian Cancer Society to raise money for the thing they do best.

I get involved in the Relay for Life, and I'm sure many other MPs here do because we've all been touched by the scourge of that dastardly disease, cancer.

Here's how you can raise some money. I'm sure the restaurant people and the folks who make the other products.... Instead of big government forcing themselves into the lives of people, maybe the Canadian Cancer Society can look at the vast array of food products, and perhaps someone who owns a very profitable restaurant would invite you to come in and take a look at their menu, or ask you for a menu that the Canadian Cancer Society believes is a healthy way to eat that doesn't contain within that product something that is, in your view, carcinogenic.

Do you think that's a good idea, Ms. Chappell?

[Heather Chappell]

That's a very interesting idea. It's certainly one that has been in discussion over the years--whether or not we would go down the road of what the Heart and Stroke Foundation does.

Currently we just don't have the resources or the expertise to be able to do that. Part of the challenge, and I think some of us touched on it, is that you don't want to get into identifying products as yes or no, good or bad. It's all about the balance, physical activity and a healthy diet.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

But you want somebody else to do it for you, I gather? No?

[Heather Chappell]

It's all about a person's healthy lifestyle balance and having the ability to do that.

[Rick Norlock, Conservative, Northumberland—Quinte West, ON]

My time is short. How many minutes do I have left?

[The Acting Chair, Conservative, Tim Uppal]

You have fewer than two minutes.