Evidence of meeting #124 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was access.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
The Vice-Chair Conservative Marilyn Gladu
We're back now. We have Victor with us by teleconference.
We will pick it up with Mr. Davies for his remaining minute.
You had a question for Victor.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Hello, Victor. I don't know how much of my question you heard before, but I was really struck by your itemization of the costs. If I added them up correctly, it basically comes to an annual cost of about $7,000 for you to manage.
9:40 a.m.
As an Individual
Yes. The insulin pump is $7,000 every five years, but the cost of managing the diabetes is $6,565.
9:45 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Right. I was calculating if you had to set aside $1,000 a year to replace your monitor.
I have two questions, and I will turn it over to you.
First, do you know other people who are not able to afford the medication or tools they need to manage their diabetes?
Second, do you think it's time we moved to a universal public pharmacare system so that every person with diabetes would have access to the medication and tools they need to manage their resources through our public system?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
I have been out in B.C. for only two years now. Even when I lived in Toronto, a couple of guys I worked with had type I diabetes, but we had a pretty good drug program there through our union, so the cost wasn't really a factor for us.
Now that I'm retired and living out in B.C., it has just become so obvious that we need a universal health care program, not just for me but for everyone, and especially for diabetics. Listening to the other people speak, it's just so obvious.
That would be my answer to that question.
9:45 a.m.
Conservative
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you for joining us again, Mr. Lepik.
I want to continue along the same lines as my colleague, Mr. Davies. We're talking about universal drug coverage across the country, but we're noticing differences between the provinces. You've travelled, and you've even moved to British Columbia in the past two years.
In your opinion, what barriers must a government overcome to provide universal drug coverage across the country and to ensure consistent coverage?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
If I understand the question, to have universal health care equal throughout the country.... We're the nation of Canada. Why should something be available for one person's illness, living in Toronto, and not be available for somebody living in Vancouver or New Brunswick? It just doesn't make sense.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
I understand the philosophical aspect of it. I don't want to put you on the spot or focus on your specific case. However, we're talking about a situation that affects the entire country. There are various types of private or public coverage. Some provinces don't have any coverage at all.
Would you be willing to pay more for people who don't have access to any coverage? Nothing is free in this world. In the end, someone always pays.
Was this an issue for you when you lived in Toronto? It seems that you had good coverage at that time. Is that correct?
9:45 a.m.
As an Individual
I had coverage with my employer, so that made a huge difference for me. My unionized health care program filled in all the gaps. I imagine that somebody in Toronto or elsewhere in Ontario who didn't have that would be enormously out of pocket, as much as somebody in Vancouver.
When you look at the health improvements from being able to manage diabetes, I'm sure that the program would be much more than self-funding.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
I agree that we should draw attention to the consequences of failing to treat either type 1 or type 2 diabetes and emphasize that this will generate health care costs in the future.
My next question is for Ms. Corcoran or Ms. Kyle.
We studied the issue of drug coverage recently, and recommendations were made to the government. In your view, what major barriers must a government in power—in this case the current government—overcome if it wants to establish national drug coverage?
9:45 a.m.
Outreach Diabetes Case Manager, Dietitian, Diabetes Education, Horizon Health Network
One thing that I think could be a barrier is the access to pharmacies and the costs at the pharmacy level, because that is not equal. Even within my own province, you can shop from one pharmacy to another and you can see up to 30% difference in cost. A universal care system may be able to provide equitable costing. That barrier may be an issue that you come across, if that answers your question.
9:45 a.m.
North American Coordinating Committee Member, Advocate with the 100 Campaign, Universities Allied for Essential Medicines
Can I just ask for some clarification? Are you talking about logistically or currently, what are some barriers province to province?
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
From my perspective, it's mainly over money and the equality of chance to access medications across Canada.
9:50 a.m.
North American Coordinating Committee Member, Advocate with the 100 Campaign, Universities Allied for Essential Medicines
When you're looking at a national program, you're talking about bulk purchasing, which, to me, makes sense. You negotiate lower prices across the board, and perhaps you don't run into the same issues with different prices from pharmacy to pharmacy. Also, we should be looking at the fact that we currently have a patchwork of systems that provide coverage for different pieces of diabetes care.
I moved from B.C. to Ontario to study. When I moved here, I was shocked, to be frank, at the systems in Ontario, at the amount of paperwork and the different programs that are available for coverage. We have the Trillium drug program, which covers diabetes test strips and insulin. Then we have the assistive devices program, which covers insulin pumps and pump supplies. Those are different systems, so you have to apply for each of them individually.
This is, again, to the point about putting a burden on people who are already dealing with a chronic condition. The amount of time that I spent on the phone and filling out paperwork to deal with these programs was.... These patchwork systems need to come together and become more cohesive.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
The answer to my last question may already be obvious, but I'll ask it anyway.
In your view, as part of a possible coverage strategy, should cases of type 1 diabetes be treated differently from cases of type 2 diabetes?
9:50 a.m.
Outreach Diabetes Case Manager, Dietitian, Diabetes Education, Horizon Health Network
9:50 a.m.
Outreach Diabetes Case Manager, Dietitian, Diabetes Education, Horizon Health Network
They should all be equal.
9:50 a.m.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
The answer is pretty obvious, but I just need the answer.
Madam Kyle says no. How about you, Victor?