Evidence of meeting #126 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
C/Supt Paul Beauchesne
Yes, there are some cases, and you're getting that information directly from Winnipeg. You're correct.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Do you think the way we set up the schedule makes it so it's harder to detect the levels or the production of drugs? Instead of, “Oh, we see a lot of people are using ingredients”, we're making sure it's kind of covert because that makes that not a crime. However, it's because we can detect it that we can say, “Well, probably at this house they're probably producing something or doing something like that.” There might be a lab somewhere.
9:25 a.m.
C/Supt Paul Beauchesne
Maybe I'll leave that part of that question to my colleagues in Health Canada, but what I can say, sir, when we're talking about the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, is that, if you are caught in possession of methamphetamine, the sentences go up to about seven years. I believe that for production they go as high as life imprisonment. I thought I'd just add that because that would be under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, and I would maybe leave Health Canada to talk a little bit more about the regs, if that's all right.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
You'd better be quick, though, because I only have seven minutes. As quick as possible, rapid fire, please, because I need to get—
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Controlled Substances Directorate, Department of Health
Perhaps just proceed to your next question.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
I was just wondering, how long is the high for meth? You described it a little, but just to have it on the record....
9:25 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Opioid Response Team, Department of Health
I think it depends. When you use substances, it's very difficult to determine. It depends on how much you used and how concentrated that dose was. What we do see is that sometimes immediate psychosis, immediate very difficult effects, but in terms of how long that high lasts, what we can say is that it is very variable, and it's so dependent on what you're taking.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
I've heard it's anywhere between 12 to 16 hours.
9:25 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Opioid Response Team, Department of Health
I think that's realistic, but again, some of those immediate effects are in that first period.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Okay.
Does anyone know the actual cost of procuring meth on the street today?
9:25 a.m.
Director General, Law Enforcement and Border Strategies Directorate, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
I understand it varies across the country, sir. I understand that in British Columbia, in Vancouver, it's $30 to $50 for a gram. The only other jurisdiction where I somewhat know the cost is Moncton, where its street value is $175 a gram. That's what I've heard. I'm not sure if my colleague from the RCMP can add anything.
9:25 a.m.
C/Supt Paul Beauchesne
My experience with the organized crime groups is that you have to be careful with just putting one amount on it, a dollar figure, because it's profit driven, and depending on supply and demand, that can vary. My colleague has given accurate numbers as I know them today, and when you're talking about the street, you have that street gram level, but you also have hits, which are called points, that are sub 0.1 of a gram. A gram would be approximately 10 hits. The minimum that you'd need to be able to consume would be 0.1 of a gram.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Yes. In Manitoba, from what I've heard, the hit can be had for free for the first few times, and then it's $10. Would that probably be accurate?
9:25 a.m.
C/Supt Paul Beauchesne
That could very well be accurate, yes.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Do we have enough addiction treatment beds in the country currently?
9:25 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Opioid Response Team, Department of Health
The easy answer to that is, no, we do not. We know that in 2014 there were 220,000 people waiting for addiction treatment services in Canada. That's part of the reason that we've recently made a big investment in making sure that treatment services are available through this emergency treatment fund. Each province is implementing that treatment fund in the way that best meets the needs of their provincial or territorial jurisdiction.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
How does that relate to indigenous populations or even homeless populations, which might be more vulnerable? In Winnipeg we have 1,500 homeless compared to Vancouver, which has 2,000. Is there a proportionality to the vulnerability of populations across Canada for the offering of addiction treatments?
9:30 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Opioid Response Team, Department of Health
If you're asking about the federal funds, I can explain that. The way that we provided the funding for that was by looking at the overall number of deaths within the jurisdiction as well as the overall number of hospitalizations. There is, indeed, an increased number of hospitalizations related to first nations communities, particularly in the provinces of Saskatchewan and Manitoba. We looked at hospitalizations and deaths and then overall population needs for each jurisdiction, but we looked at it in the context of opioids.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Okay.
You're also developing a drug observatory. How much money is going into that?
9:30 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Opioid Response Team, Department of Health
Currently the way that we're developing that drug observatory is by taking the data that's being developed by all the various ministries and putting them together. That funding is happening from funding that we already have through the Canadian drugs and substance use strategy.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
Will that be looking at the impact on crime levels and everything related to that? It sounds like it's the first time anyone has actually ever done that. From what I understand in the testimony, we don't have a lot of data on drug use, such as who's using it or when it's being used.
9:30 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Opioid Response Team, Department of Health
The reality is that various organizations collect data, but we have never brought that data together in a coordinated and comprehensive way. My colleagues in the RCMP and at border services collect data. StatsCan and public health collect data. We collect data.
Our ability to bring that all together allows us the opportunity to start to really look for the first time—as Ms. Lavoie was saying—at the who, what, when, where and why. I believe that if we'd had a drug observatory earlier we would have been able to predict that we'd have an opioid crisis and we'd be able to give you better information on what the methamphetamine use looks like today.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Robert-Falcon Ouellette Liberal Winnipeg Centre, MB
I have one final question.
Have you heard of the Icelandic model on recreation?
9:30 a.m.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Opioid Response Team, Department of Health
Absolutely. Our chief medical officer of health has been talking a lot about that model and exploring it and looking at other ways of bringing that to Canada.
We understand that there are some communities in Canada that have already started to try to implement that model. We're following up with them.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal