Evidence of meeting #127 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:35 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Pine River Institute
It's 200 youth, about a year and a half wait.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I'm a parent. I have a 14-year-old kid who's on crystal meth. I come to you and I say my child needs treatment. You tell me come back in a year and a half.
9:35 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Pine River Institute
I would tell you that we will put you on a wait-list and that you should be looking somewhere else.
We don't encourage people to wait in the absence of service. We say that we will put you on a wait-list but you should be trying other options.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Okay.
My next question is that if we're treating addiction and substance use disorder as a health issue, our health care system certainly isn't treating it that way. If I need a cardiac operation and I need it next week, and you said come back in a year and a half, we wouldn't accept that, but we do with substance use.
Is it time that we need substantial—I'm going to say “massive”—public investment in treatment facilities in this country?
9:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Bear Clan Patrol Inc.
Absolutely, we are in a really bad spot right now. If things don't change quickly, we're going to be overrun by this. Right now it's only four years in and we can still change things.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I'll come this way, because you're running a treatment centre, Mr. Dowie.
9:35 a.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Pine River Institute
Absolutely, the need grossly outstrips the capacity, and governments need to invest. I agree that “massive” is the right word.
9:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Overdose Prevention Society
I believe that it's going to cost our country a lot more if we continue the way we are going right now, and that we need to do something we haven't done before. This is a national health crisis. We need to call it that and move forward in a big way, or else we're in big trouble.
9:35 a.m.
President, Manitoba Nurses Union
I'm going to tell you a fast story, and I know I'm not always fast. I talked to a nurse from the neonatal intensive care unit, where they're seeing many babies coming from addicted moms, and what she was telling me is that women with addictions will get pregnant to jump the queue to get into a treatment bed. We are in desperate need of treatment beds.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Ms. Blyth, quickly, your overdose prevention site, is it operating legally or illegally in this country right now?
9:35 a.m.
Executive Director, Overdose Prevention Society
It's operating under the basis that it's a provincial crisis. We don't have a federal exemption, but it is operating because of the provincial crisis.
9:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Overdose Prevention Society
No, we don't.
I've been working in shelters in the Downtown Eastside for years, in housing. Dealing with folks who come in who are in crisis, our staff is some of the best. We have people from InSite, but it can be very difficult and we certainly don't have the support we need. We could use some federal support just being a centre for folks so they don't have to go to the hospital; they can come to us. We could use additional help.
I agree with you that there needs to be a place that's separate for drug users to get the help they need, with nurses and also staff who are trained to help people in mental health crisis.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you all for coming.
Ms. Jackson, thank you for your kind words on the violence study. I'd like to pass on my thanks to Sandi Mowat, your predecessor, for helping to champion this issue.
As you know, I was an emergency doctor for 20 years, the last eight years at the Health Sciences Centre.
I have a number of questions about all of this. You put something out that was quite a good observation that I think the public needs to understand. You talked about nurses in different hospitals seeing it. Would you say this is something, particularly from the Winnipeg perspective, that you see in all neighbourhoods and all over the city?
9:40 a.m.
President, Manitoba Nurses Union
We're definitely seeing it in our emergency departments now. It's sort of changed the game, because Winnipeg no longer has a catchment area for ambulances, so if there's a client in the core area who's two blocks away from the Health Sciences Centre and an ambulance is called, they may be taken out to Concordia Hospital, which is on the other side of the city. There's no catchment area any longer. What used to be Health Science Centre's biggest issue is now turning into the biggest issue for all the facilities that provide emergency services.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you.
You mentioned infection control. This is something we've dealt with. I've always been a champion for supervised consumption sites based on the issue of infection control. People say we shouldn't waste the money on this, but when hepatitis C costs $300,000 a year to treat and HIV costs about a million dollars over the life of the patient, all of a sudden the money seems well spent at that point.
Do you know if there's any information through the hospitals on their incidence of blood-borne diseases among the people who are having problems with meth, whether this population has incidences of hepatitis C and HIV?
Ms. Blyth, you might be able to help us out on that as well.
9:40 a.m.
Executive Director, Overdose Prevention Society
I do know that you can pass it on with pipes, that clean pipes would be helpful. I don't know the statistics, but I know that clean pipes, clean equipment, clean needles, obviously, do the same thing.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
9:40 a.m.
President, Manitoba Nurses Union
I don't have statistics for you but I do know that having a needle exchange program or providing safe injection sites, absolutely, there will be a cost, but it will be an efficiency and will save dollars in the end. When you have someone who's using meth, who's injecting and needs a valve replacement, that is a huge cost to the health care system. We do have individuals who have used for many years, who have had more than one valve replacement, so that is a huge cost to the system, but it's also a huge cost to our cardiac program.
We know that we're cancelling surgeries. We're short of beds and short of staff in that program. I believe that safe injection sites and needle exchanges, clean needles, absolutely will save dollars and save lives.
9:40 a.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you.
As you know, our current provincial government and I think the new provincial government in Ontario are actually very resistant to the concept of safe consumption sites. They claim that there isn't the need in Winnipeg for this. What would your response to that be?
9:40 a.m.
President, Manitoba Nurses Union
I speak to nurses. Those are the individuals I get information from, and I can tell them they are wrong. This is a crisis that is getting bigger every day. I have nurses who don't even want to go to work anymore. I actually had a nurse say to me, “I know every day when I go to work I'm going to be assaulted. I just pray it's a verbal assault and not a physical assault.” I think this is a terrible shame. I think the government is burying their heads in the sand on this one.
9:45 a.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you. I agree about the consequences of assault. I was assaulted twice in my emergency career and it tends to shake one up and make one a little hesitant to go back to work.
Ms. Blyth.
