Evidence of meeting #128 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was health.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Simon Kennedy  Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Siddika Mithani  President, Public Health Agency of Canada
Michel Perron  Executive Vice-President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research
Paul Glover  President, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Robert-Falcon Ouellette  Winnipeg Centre, Lib.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you.

On opioids, there's an overwhelming consensus among addictions professionals, community organizations and families with lived experience that the leading cause of opioid deaths in Canada is the tainted street drug supply.

It's plainly obvious that ensuring a safe supply would save lives. No less a figure than the president of the Canadian Medical Association is calling on Canadian politicians to have an “open and courageous” debate on decriminalization, yet you and the Prime Minister have explicitly ruled out any consideration of decriminalization and regulation.

My question is this: Do you disagree with the stakeholder consensus, or is it simply a lack of political courage?

9:10 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Mr. Davies, I think you've heard me say, probably on several occasions, that I certainly recognize that the opioid crisis is a devastating situation that's happening in our country at this point in time, and we certainly have to use all tools at our disposal to turn the tide on the crisis.

With respect to the issue of decriminalization, we believe—I believe—that decriminalization alone is not going to provide a safe supply of drugs on the streets, and many other experts in the field have said the same. I've met with individuals in Portugal as well, and they've indicated that decriminalization alone is not the silver bullet solution to effectively turn the tide on this crisis. I do, however, feel that having a safe supply of drugs is an option and a step in the right direction.

That's why the regulatory changes have been made to ensure that medication replacement therapy is available. We have ensured that with diacetylmorphine, for example, we got rid of some of the red tape. That needed to take place in order for doctors to be able to prescribe it, and also methadone.

We continue to work with partners on the ground. We continue to use all the levers at our disposal to make sure we effectively deal with the situation.

Once again, I certainly recognize that more work needs to be done in this area, and we will continue to make the investments and to provide support and leadership as a federal government.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Minister, you've repeatedly claimed that your government is doing everything possible. You just said again that you're using every lever to deal with the opioid crisis. Of course, that's not true. Besides ruling out decriminalization, which is one lever that obviously would result in a much safer supply of drugs being accessible to Canadians, you've refused to declare this a public health emergency under the Emergencies Act. We just heard this Tuesday from Sarah Blyth, who operates an overdose prevention site on Vancouver's Downtown Eastside, the epicentre of the opioid crisis, that they receive no federal money or federal exemption to operate legally, and your government has failed to join B.C.'s civil lawsuit against opioid manufacturers, just to name some.

We know that the U.S. federal government has secured criminal convictions and civil damages from opioid manufacturers for violating U.S. federal law. My question is simple: Has your ministry investigated criminal and civil violations of Canadian federal law, and if not, why not?

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Well, you've asked three or four parts of your question now.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Just the last question is all I really want to know the answer to.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

With respect to addressing your question, though, and with respect to declaring it a public health emergency, I feel that I have to address that.

If we felt that we would have any more tools at our disposal by declaring this a public health emergency, we would absolutely do so. I've checked with my officials. I've checked with the Minister of Public Safety. Declaring it a public health emergency would give me no other levers to work with. That is why we haven't gone forward with declaring it a public health emergency.

Again, Mr. Davies, decriminalization will not provide safe drugs on the streets to individuals. That alone is not going to be the end-all fix-all.

With respect to the lawsuit in B.C., as you made reference to, our department is reviewing the class action, or the lawsuit, that's been filed by British Columbia, and no decision has been made at this time.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Okay. Thank you.

By the way, it's not just decriminalization, Minister; it's decriminalization and regulation of drugs to ensure that Canadians get safe access to drugs.

I want to move, if I can, to forced sterilization.

In 1986, the Supreme Court of Canada made the practice of forced or compulsory sterilization illegal in Canada, of course, yet more than three decades later, we're still confronting the stark reality that modern-day forced sterilizations are occurring in publicly funded and administered hospitals in Canada. Sixty indigenous women are currently engaged in a class action lawsuit, alleging that they were subjected to forced sterilization in our health care system as late as last year, 2017.

We know that Amnesty International has confirmed this constitutes a form of torture as defined by the UN, and we have a moral obligation to ensure that Canada's health care system upholds fundamental human rights.

What actions are you taking as federal minister of health to address this profoundly disturbing situation?

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you very much for your question. I have to agree with all of your comments, Mr. Davies. It's an appalling situation. It's completely unacceptable to think that this is happening in this country. It's certainly a clear violation of human rights, and also, it's gender-based violence. Here we are, on December 6, of all days, talking about this—a very appropriate day to be talking about this. It's just simply not acceptable at all.

Minister Philpott and I work in close collaboration. We are reaching out to provinces and territories in order to further this discussion, and not only provinces and territories, but medical associations that regulate these professions. We want to make sure we do all that we can to put an end to this.

I've indicated I still can't believe that in 2018 we're having this conversation, and it's happening in this country. Let me be clear: This is absolutely unacceptable, and we will do all that we can to ensure that it no longer occurs.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Time is up.

Now we go to Mr. Ayoub for seven minutes.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Madam Minister, and thank you for being here with us.

Madam Minister, in your mandate letter, it says: “facilitate collaboration on an organ and tissue donations and transplantation system that gives Canadians timely and effective access to care”.

I congratulate you and thank you and your team for having accepted to work with me and having sponsored, if you will, motion M-189, which was tabled a few weeks ago in the House of Commons. It was accepted unanimously by my colleagues, whom I also thank.

I'd like to know what the situation is now. Still today, out of the list of 4,500 people, 250 die every year while they are waiting for an organ donation, either to save their life or to improve their quality of life.

In the near future, how will the provinces, territories and stakeholders work together to facilitate organ and tissue donation in Canada?

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

First, thank you very much for your question, Mr. Ayoub. I congratulate you for having tabled that motion. It's always a good thing when a motion is accepted by all political parties. Canadian men and women have a lot of empathy for the people who are waiting for an organ transplant. All of the people around this table probably know someone who has had an organ transplant or who is on a waiting list for an organ donation.

This is certainly an absolute priority for our government. We recognize that there are too many people waiting for an organ donation, and not enough people who receive them. When bills or motions are tabled to improve the situation, it's always a good thing.

The federal government made investments, as did the provinces and territories, to support the Canadian Blood Services initiative and the work it does in this area. We will continue to work in close co-operation with the provinces and territories, as well as with Canadian Blood Services, to improve the organ and tissue transplant system.

We also invested $100 million in transplant research. We recognize that there is still a lot of work to do in this area, and we will continue to follow the situation closely and make the necessary investments to move this forward.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Will you be meeting with your provincial colleagues and Canadian Blood Services representatives over the next few months? What measures will you take to define the problems and find short- and medium-term solutions to move this forward? Over the last 10 years, there has been a certain stagnation. Things have improved somewhat, but there is still a lot of work to do. The fact remains that only 250 people per year receive an organ donation.

Someone once asked me what the ideal number of people on the list would be. Obviously, the answer is zero. No one should be on a waiting list, and face being told that there will be no organ donation for them.

What meetings is your department planning in order to exercise its leadership in this area?

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

As you said, we would like to see the waiting list disappear, and it would be ideal if no one were waiting for an organ donation.

When I meet my provincial and territorial counterparts, quite frankly, the issue of organ donations is always on the agenda. This is an issue that concerns all of us, both the federal government and provinces and territories.

We will continue to make the necessary investments to promote organ donations, as well as to inform Canadians that they can place their name on the list of organ donors.

We are continuing to do a lot of work in this area. The federal government will continue to show leadership in co-operation with its provincial and territorial counterparts.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you.

My colleague, Mr. Webber, introduced Bill C-316, which was agreed to unanimously. We are all following this issue closely. Many of my colleagues and I would like this to be implemented as quickly as possible.

You raised another important topic. There has been an increase of $500,000 for the purpose of education and awareness-raising about the effects of cannabis, following its legalization last October.

How are you going to approach public education on cannabis? It's not about advertizing, but about providing information to young people and their parents Canada-wide. Young people will become adults, and they will be able to consume cannabis, or not. Before consuming cannabis they have to know what it is.

How do you intend to better inform the population on the adverse effects of cannabis, particularly young people of less than 25? It has been shown very clearly that cannabis has deleterious effects on young people. What are the next steps?

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you very much for your question.

As you know, even before cannabis was legalized, there were several prevention and education programs to inform young people especially, but also the rest of the population, with regard to the risks associated with the consumption of cannabis.

As Minister of Health, I've always said that I did not want to encourage young people, nor the rest of the population, to consume cannabis. However, we also recognize that young people had access to it before legalization. Therefore, we wanted to protect our young people and put an end to the black market. That was in fact the objective of the bill.

That said, we are still going to invest over $108 million in education and prevention, since we want to make sure that we inform young people about the risks involved in consuming cannabis. It has already been a year and a half since we began setting up partnerships with several community groups who are helping us to do this. I could mention, for instance, Drug Free Kids Canada, with whom we have good co-operation. That organization has developed a work tool that helps professionals and other people who work with young people raise the topic of drugs with them. That type of conversation can sometimes be a bit difficult or delicate, and people don't always know how to go about it. This tool, which has been distributed to thousands of Canadians, helps stakeholders get the conversation started about drugs with our youngsters.

Our department is going to continue to establish working relationships with various community organizations. We have also developed our awareness campaigns, as have our colleagues from the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

At this time, we want to make sure that our messages get through. There will thus be awareness-raising messages on television and radio. However, if we want to reach young people, we have to remember that they are different from adults. Personally, I still watch a lot of television, but young people are more inclined to use social media. And so our awareness campaigns aimed at young people have to be directed to social media.

The results we've obtained confirm that our messages are reaching millions of young people, and that our campaigns are working, because we go where the young people are. We want to ensure that young people are aware of the dangers of cannabis and impaired driving.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Thanks very much.

I want to note that the government member put in a plug for the opposition member's motion. You don't see that very often, but that's the nature of our committee now.

We're going to start our second round with Mr. Webber.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

Not only does the member opposite plug my bill, but the government also provided $4 million for the implementation of my bill to get organ donation on the tax return, so I thank you very much for that, Minister. I'm sure you were a big part of that as well.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Congratulations on a job very well done. As I have indicated, this area affects many Canadians. I think all of us around the table know someone who is either waiting for a transplant or has been the recipient of one. I think all initiatives that all parties can do to promote this are certainly very well received, so thank you very much.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

Thank you.

Of course, it is a big issue around this table too. Everyone is passionate about the bill and about passing Mr. Ayoub's motion as well. I'm putting that right back at you, Mr. Ayoub. Your motion was wonderful. We supported it wholeheartedly.

To continue on that bill, Minister, there is a little hiccup here right now. I am finding it very difficult to get it through the House before Christmas. I wanted to get a vote before Christmas so it can get to the Senate and then get to the CRA before their deadline to ensure it gets on the form in 2019.

Right now it looks as though it may not get on there until 2020, which to me is an extra year of people dying when they shouldn't be.

I tried to get the bill to collapse yesterday. It didn't happen because your party, I'm sorry to say, wanted to continue the debate, so it went into a second hour of third reading. I tried unanimous consent. I talked to the government House leaders; your government is not willing to have unanimous consent.

If you could please talk to your House leader, to your party, to try to get unanimous consent on this bill so there can be a vote next week, I would appreciate it very much.

9:25 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Well, I'm certainly committing to you that I'll speak to our House leader with respect to the issue, and we'll certainly follow up.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

Great. Thank you.

I'm going to follow up a little bit also on Mr. Davies' questioning. I just need further clarification regarding the opioid crisis. You mentioned that you've set up consumption sites and you want to reduce the stigma out there with respect to these people's suffering.

Mr. Davies brought up the Portugal model of decriminalization. I just want some clarification there, Minister. Will you clarify for all Canadians whether the Portugal model of decriminalization is on or off the table as a path that you would be willing to consider?

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you, Mr. Webber, for the question.

I think we've been very clear with respect to the issue of decriminalization: It is not a path that we are considering at this time. We indicated that many regulatory and legislative changes have taken place over the three years we've been in government. We've certainly restored harm reduction as the key pillar of our drug strategy; we recognize that harm reduction measures do work. We also recognize that when it comes to treating substance use issues, we have to meet clients or users where they're at. We can't have a single approach to effectively deal with this. As a result, we have made significant investments in different areas. If we look at the harm reduction pillar, we've certainly done all that we can to ensure clients have access to treatment.

9:30 a.m.

Conservative

Len Webber Conservative Calgary Confederation, AB

Minister, you mentioned the money you've put into this. How much has been spent on treatment and recovery for the opioid crisis? What's the dollar amount that we've spent so far?

9:30 a.m.

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

In 2018 alone, in budget 2018, an investment of $230 million was brought forward. Out of that $230-million investment, $150 million is specifically for the emergency treatment fund. That's funding that will be given to provinces and territories—we're in the process of negotiating bilateral agreements with them right now—to provide them with additional resources to have more services on the ground. That's the $150 million.

Aside from that, we certainly recognize that stigma is a big barrier to people receiving the treatment they need, so part of that funding will also go toward putting together an anti-stigma campaign. The first part of that campaign has already been rolled out. We're going to roll out the second part of that campaign after Christmas.