Evidence of meeting #131 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was witnesses.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Abby Hoffman  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health
Valerie Gideon  Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada
Tom Wong  Executive Director and Chief Medical Officer of Public Health, Indigenous Services Canada
Robert-Falcon Ouellette  Winnipeg Centre, Lib.
Bob Benzen  Calgary Heritage, CPC
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Alexandre Jacques
Marlisa Tiedemann  Committee Researcher

3:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

I welcome everybody to meeting 131 of the Standing Committee on Health. We will go until about 5:10 and then go in camera for a little bit of committee business.

First of all, I want to thank our witnesses today for coming to help us with this new study.

From the Department of Heath, we have Abby Hoffman, Assistant Deputy Minister, back again after several visits.

We have from the Department for Women and Gender Equality, Lisa Smylie, Director, Research and Evaluation, Results and Delivery Unit.

From the Department of Indigenous Services Canada, we have Valerie Gideon for another return engagement. Thank you very much. She is Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch. We also have Dr. Tom Wong, Executive Director and Chief Medical Officer of Public Health.

We're going to have two opening statements, one by Ms. Hoffman and one by Ms. Gideon.

Ms. Hoffman, if you would like to open with a 10-minute statement, we'll start our meeting.

3:25 p.m.

Abby Hoffman Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health

Thank you.

Good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to appear in front of you on this important issue.

I want to begin by acknowledging that the land we are meeting on today is the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin nation.

I, like everyone else, have been very concerned about the reports we've all heard of indigenous women being coerced into undergoing sterilization procedures. It is unacceptable that this could happen to any woman anywhere in Canada's health care system. Forced or coerced sterilization is a serious violation of human rights and medical ethics. It's a form of gender-based violence and evidence of a broader need to eliminate racism and discriminatory practices that may exist within our health system.

Unfortunately, there is a documented history of compulsory sterilization in Canada linked to a broader eugenics movement in the 1900s. Institutionalization, regulation of marriage and sterilization were social controls in place in some parts of the country. While these practices were codified in law in some provinces, we know that sterilization without appropriate consent occurred in other parts of the country as well. Women with intellectual disabilities and marginalized, racialized and indigenous women were often the victims. Several well-known academics, including Dr. Karen Stote and Dr. Erika Dyck, have documented this history in detail.

Recent media reports of indigenous women undergoing coerced sterilization procedures suggest that these injustices may have occurred long after laws allowing forced sterilization were repealed. The scope of the issue has not been documented comprehensively, aside from the work of now Senator Boyer and Dr. Judith Bartlett.

It's the responsibility of all players in the health system to ensure that patients have access to health services that are free from bias and discrimination. The Government of Canada takes this obligation seriously. We know that indigenous women, along with other vulnerable women impacted by poverty, mental health, addiction issues and so on, also struggle with bias and safety in the system.

Just as an example, in 2016 Women's College Hospital, following a period of study of over six years, released a report entitled “A Thousand Voices for Women's Health”. It documented how women from diverse communities feel they were treated, and expressed their expectation for services that are responsive to and respectful of individual identities, cultures, and social circumstances, and that are non-judgmental.

We know that in Canada no one level of government has exclusive jurisdiction over health care. It's a complex system of shared jurisdiction, where both the federal government and the provinces and territories have important responsibilities. The federal government, for its part, has important roles to play in ensuring the health and safety of Canadians, making financial contributions to the Canadian health care system through the CHT and setting national standards for health care through the Canada Health Act. Provincial and territorial governments have the primary responsibility, of course, for day-to-day management, organization and delivery of health care services. Each jurisdiction has created its own health care system, but based on common principles.

As part of their responsibilities to administer and deliver health care services, each province and territory has laid out, through statute, its frameworks for oversight of health care professionals by self-regulating bodies. These bodies are responsible for reviewing and responding to complaints against health care professionals under their authority, and for disciplinary action when warranted.

Provinces and territories also have the authority to regulate matters related to a patient's consent for medical treatment. The concept of informed consent has evolved over time. It's complex. The processes for making decisions on treatments that were once almost entirely the domain of providers have shifted over time to greater consideration of the views of patients. Informed consent today is about ensuring that the patient has the information and the capacity to make an informed decision based on the advice and counsel of their health practitioner.

Informed consent means that a patient has received information about the nature of the treatment that's proposed, the expected benefits, risks and side effects, alternative courses of action, and the likely consequences of not receiving treatment. But the consent also has to be valid. For the consent to be valid, the consenting individual must have the capacity to make an informed judgment and to provide their consent voluntarily.

Studies involving women consenting to gynecological procedures show that patients frequently describe feeling compelled to sign a consent form despite their preference not to undertake a procedure. ln a study by Hall, Prochazka and Fink, published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal in 2012, 30% of women consenting to surgery reported that they did not think they had a choice about signing the consent form, and 88% of the respondents perceived the form as strictly administrative. This suggests there are some significant shortcomings in practitioner communication with patients on matters of consent and that how and when consent is obtained from women is important.

All jurisdictions have a role in ensuring that health care services are delivered in a manner that is free from discrimination, no matter where those services are delivered, and no matter who provides the service. The federal government can and does play an important role as catalyst for health care system improvements and for supporting collaboration among multiple players and stakeholders on critical issues.

In just a minute, my colleague from lndigenous Services Canada will elaborate on a number of areas, but I want to speak briefly to our plans specific to improving cultural safety.

Our plan is consistent with the government's overall commitment to advancing reconciliation with indigenous peoples and implementing the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action. Specifically, calls to action 23 and 24 ask all orders of government to support “cultural competency training for all healthcare professionals” and the calls directed to medical and nursing schools ask them to require that all students have “training in intercultural competency, conflict resolution, human rights, and anti-racism”.

On December 11, 2018, the Minister of Health and the then minister of indigenous services wrote to provincial and territorial ministers and to health professional organizations, among others, seeking their collaboration on and participation in a federal-provincial-territorial working group. Health Canada is taking a leadership role and will partner with provinces, territories and health organizations to take actions that we hope will lead to a significant cultural shift in the Canadian health system; that is, a shift to a system that supports efforts to prevent discriminatory practices and increases access to culturally safe health services for indigenous peoples.

This March, Health Canada will convene provincial and territorial partners to begin discussing areas for collaboration on measures to increase cultural safety in the health care system. This group will work closely with indigenous partners, women and health professional organizations. We expect the federal-provincial-territorial group to build on the good work already under way across the country and to identify opportunities for action in areas such as awareness raising and training.

By way of example, in British Columbia, which is among the most advanced jurisdictions in the country, extensive cultural safety training has already been delivered to providers, administrators and policy-makers throughout the province. Health authorities, institutions, provider organizations and so on in other parts of the country have other initiatives under way as well.

We will collaborate with indigenous partners and governments at the national and regional level and with professional colleges and health organizations. Fortunately, there are opportunities to learn from the experiences of groups who've championed the objective of non-discrimination for some time, such as, for example, the First Nations Health Authority in British Columbia, which has a vision of hard-wiring the concepts of cultural safety and cultural humility into the delivery of health care services.

We know that improving health outcomes, increasing access to culturally appropriate health services and programs and addressing the social determinants of health are high priorities for indigenous leaders and communities across the country.

I believe that the work we are undertaking will increase the level of cultural safety within the health care system, lead to improvements in the quality of service and contribute to reconciliation.

I thank you for the opportunity to make these short remarks. Following my colleague's remarks, I would be pleased to attempt to answer your questions. Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go to Ms. Gideon.

3:35 p.m.

Valerie Gideon Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada

Good afternoon. Thank you for inviting me to also appear before this committee on the critical issue of forced or coerced sterilization.

I would also like to begin by acknowledging that we are on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin people this afternoon.

We're here today because we're all disturbed by reports of forced and coerced sterilization of indigenous women in Canada. I want to acknowledge these women and recognize their bravery. I speak as a First Nation woman, member of the Mik'maq Nation of Gesgapegiag in Quebec, and mother of two young indigenous girls, and as someone who has dedicated her entire career to advocating for the health of indigenous peoples, both outside and inside the public service.

Forced or coerced sterilization is a serious violation of human rights and medical ethics. All Canadians have a responsibility to ensure that these practices never happen again. As noted by my colleague, Abby Hoffman, there is evidence of the broader need to eliminate racism and discriminatory practices and to eliminate forced or coerced sterilization as a form of gender-based violence. Its practice, among others, compels us to seek to ensure there is cultural safety and humility in health systems across Canada, to improve culturally competent informed consent, and to remove barriers facing indigenous women when accessing health services. As cited by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, addressing racism in health systems is a matter of reconciliation.

ln addition to the progress that Abby noted to advance cultural safety and humility within health systems, I would also like to highlight the work that Indigenous Services Canada has been undertaking on this issue. For the sake of time, I will outline some of the more recent actions.

ln early December of 2018, we held a teleconference with indigenous partners and national health organizations. We discussed ways to advance collaboration and to identify actions that would ensure free, prior and informed consent, along with culturally informed and safe services for indigenous women across Canada.

The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights recommended that Canada produce an information brochure for health care providers and patients on free, prior and informed consent in the context of indigenous women's health services. To make this happen, we've been in discussions with national indigenous women's organizations on how to proceed.

We're also establishing a new advisory committee on indigenous women's well-being made up of representatives from national indigenous organizations, national indigenous women’s organizations, the National Aboriginal Council of Midwives, the National Aboriginal Circle Against Family Violence, and the Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada. This committee will inform the department on current and emerging issues, including sexual and reproductive health. The inaugural meeting will be held on February 14, 2019.

In addition, we'll be hosting a national forum in the spring to mobilize indigenous and professional organizations to take collaborative actions on indigenous women's reproductive health, and to develop guidance on free, prior and informed consent regarding sterilization procedures.

ln addition to responding to recommendations made at the lnter-American Commission on Human Rights, lndigenous Services Canada endeavours to more broadly support indigenous women's reproductive health through its programs and policies. The first nations and Inuit health branch's maternal and child health program offers community-based home visiting services by nurses and family visitors to over 8,100 pregnant women and families with young children in over 309 first nations communities. This is not counting British Columbia, which is under the direct control of the First Nations Health Authority mentioned by Abby. Through the program, expectant mothers receive case management, screening, assessment and referral services as well as health promotion strategies to identify risks and improve maternal and child health. Budget 2017 increased the existing program funding of approximately $25 million annually by $21.1 million over five years.

ln addition, budget 2017 invested $6 million over five years for indigenous midwifery, the first-ever federal investment in this area. Midwifery care to indigenous communities has been identified as a pathway to helping improve the health and well-being of women, their children and the entire community. lndigenous midwifery is a way to bring birthing back to communities where it had previously been a longstanding traditional practice embedded with ceremony as well as traditional medical practices. Furthermore, informed choice is recognized as a central tenet of midwifery care in Canada. It could help ensure that indigenous women play a central role in their own health care and in their experience of giving birth.

Senator Yvonne Boyer and Dr. Judith Bartlett, who conducted an external review into reports of forced and coerced sterilizations in Saskatoon, found that previous custodial loss, or the threat of custodial loss, has played a role in the forced and coerced sterilization of indigenous women in Saskatchewan.

There's some evidence that midwives not only support women in their reproductive health planning, which may prevent further cases of forced or coerced sterilization, but that they also provide support to women in preventing custodial loss of their children. Further work is required in this area, and we're looking to indigenous midwives' leadership to better understand the issues. To that end, we're pleased that the National Aboriginal Council of Midwives has agreed to sit on the indigenous women's well-being advisory committee.

Budget 2017 also included new investments that will strengthen maternal supports by ensuring that all first nations and Inuit women are entitled to an escort when they have to leave their community for childbirth. We know that the presence of a support person offers many benefits to a labouring woman, including assisting her with making decisions and advocating for her wishes. lndigenous Services Canada's non-insured health benefits program now provides coverage for an escort for expecting mothers, regardless of their age or medical condition. This recognizes that no woman should have to birth alone.

The Government of Canada has committed to implementing the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action, including calls 22, 23 and 24, which were mentioned by my colleague. These calls pertain to using and recognizing the value of Aboriginal healing practices, retaining and increasing the number of Aboriginal health care professionals, and providing anti-racism and cultural competency training for all medical and nursing students.

Our department has been exploring, with the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada and indigenous organizations, project ideas for an online knowledge hub of cultural competency learning tools. Last year, the Royal College embarked on making indigenous health and cultural safety a mandatory component of postgraduate medical education and certification.

As also mentioned by Abby, the B.C. First Nations Health Authority has done remarkable work with the province and its regional health authorities in finalizing a declaration on cultural safety and humility, as well as informing cultural safety and humility training across the provincial health system. It is presently developing the first-ever cultural safety and humility standard in partnership with the Health Standards Organization, which is affiliated with Accreditation Canada. We're hopeful that other provinces and territories will look to this work as a promising practice.

We can't undertake this work unilaterally. The Native Women’s Association of Canada and Pauktuutit Inuit Women of Canada have been providing leadership on indigenous women's health. As our relationship with these women's organizations grows and expands to include Les Femmes Michif Otipemisiwak, or Women of the Métis Nation, we're encouraged by their good work and guidance. Their collaboration is essential to getting this right.

It will take the efforts of many to ensure that structural racism and the effects of colonization do not interfere with the health of indigenous women. I want to assure you that we are taking this matter very seriously and will continue to work in the spirit of collaboration and partnership towards culturally informed and safe health services for indigenous women throughout Canada.

I would now be pleased to take your questions.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Thanks very much.

I'm just sitting here thinking that I first heard about this about two or three months ago from Alex Neve of Amnesty International. I thought, “He must be mistaken. That can't be happening in Canada.” That was my first reaction. So, we appreciate your briefings and look forward to your answers to our questions, but it's an amazing subject that we have to talk about.

We're going to open with Mr. McKinnon.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

Thank you all for being here and for sharing with us your experience and knowledge.

My first question is directed generally to Health Canada, but I invite everyone to answer if they wish. What training and education do health care providers receive related to obtaining valid consent for medical procedures, and are there additional considerations in obtaining consent for obstetrical procedures?

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health

Abby Hoffman

I would say that pretty well universally in medical education there are units or modules that are a mandatory part of training on informed consent. That training covers the ethical, legal and clinical dimensions of the issue of informed and valid consent.

Beyond what happens in formal medical education settings, there are organizations like the Canadian Medical Protective Association, which obviously is the liability insurer, if you like, for the medical profession in Canada. It has a very strong interest in making sure that providers fully understand their responsibilities around informed consent legally, ethically and clinically as well. They have a lot of resources available.

In hospitals and other institutions, beyond the realm of formal undergraduate or graduate training, issues of consent are very complicated. It is the case that within hospitals on any given day hundreds of informed consent situations are encountered in the interactions between providers and patients. So in hospitals there are people whose responsibility it is to engage with providers who are in the course of making decisions informing patients about treatment options and wanting to be assured that they in fact have secured appropriate consent from patients.

I'm just recounting this, not that I'm an expert on the legal aspects of informed consent. I'm not and I don't purport to be or wish to be interpreted as such. I just want to make the point that there is both the formal training that medical students receive and also an ongoing dialogue about consent issues throughout a practitioner's career.

With respect to a particular discipline—and again I want to underscore that I'm not an expert on this—inasmuch as certain specialists are permitted to do some procedures, or to propose those procedures and to implement them in their areas of specialization, there is some consideration of how consent would apply to those particular procedures. In the obstetrics and gynecological world, because of the kinds of procedures those individual specialists are permitted to pursue, they would need to consider how they would discuss treatment or interventions and what would constitute appropriate advice and, therefore, an appropriate determination of whether or not a patient has actually given consent relative to the procedures they are authorized to pursue.

There is a specialist-specific dimension to the issue of informed consent. This all assumes that the process is working well. It assumes that due consideration is given to the circumstances of the individual patient who is discussing a treatment procedure with the provider. This is where issues around cultural safety and sensitivity and awareness of cultural difference and the circumstances of patients come into play. What may be a completely appropriate conversation with one patient may not be taken appropriately into account in the circumstances of another patient. While it may look like informed consent had been achieved, it may not have been, given the circumstances of an individual patient.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

I'm curious about the motivation behind coercing consent, although coerced consent is not really consent, but I ask because we're talking about it in those terms. What kind of motivation is there?

Certainly the undercurrent here is that it's a racial bias, perhaps cultural bias. I'm wondering whether this extends to non-indigenous women as well.

Do we have any information about whether non-indigenous women, perhaps for reasons of their economic situation, coerced to give consent as well?

Whoever would like to answer that, can.

3:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health

Abby Hoffman

I can start, and maybe my colleagues will want to add to it. I think the history, such as has been documented, is that certain women might be more vulnerable: women of very limited economic means, women who suffer moderate to severe mental health issues, women who suffer addictions and, women who, to a provider, might seem to be in a dire situation—and in reality might indeed be so, in all objective terms. It just stands to reason that when a provider says, in the event of, let's say, an unwanted pregnancy.... You can imagine a situation where a provider might offer to an individual that he or she has a solution to deal with this kind of situation so that it won't recur, and maybe there's a conversation about contraception or sterilization, or whatever it might be.

The circumstances under which that conversation occurs might, on the one hand, not take proper consideration of the circumstances of the individual in question and how that might play into her giving what appears to be consent, but consent that's heavily influenced by her circumstances.

If you add into the situation some bias—you can imagine someone with a severe mental health condition or an addiction issue who is not really able to communicate very well, or circumstances where there is racial bias, whether it's related to indigenous status or other racialized individuals—you can kind of see how these circumstances can compound themselves. Certainly even the anecdotal as well as the better-documented history indicates that, in fact, sterilization has occurred in cases where these kinds of individuals are the subject of the situation.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

Thank you. I believe that's my time.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Does anybody else want to respond?

Dr. Wong

3:50 p.m.

Dr. Tom Wong Executive Director and Chief Medical Officer of Public Health, Indigenous Services Canada

In addition to the excellent comment by my colleague Abby, there are ethnocultural barriers and linguistic barriers. When someone doesn't quite understand what's being explained to them, I think that's a really important aspect that one needs to consider as you optimize...to make sure that the patient understands everything that's being presented, including alternatives, risks and benefits.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

I think what I'm hearing here is—

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bill Casey

Your time is up, sorry.

Ms. McLeod.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

I think your opening comments hit home with me. I think we all knew that there were issues back in the 1950s and 1960s, but to hear that in present-day Canada this is happening was both profoundly disturbing and concerning.

I know that both ministers sent letters to the provinces and territories. Is it fair to say that Health Canada has been designated as the overall lead for this file?

3:55 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada

Valerie Gideon

From the federal-provincial-territorial relations piece, absolutely. Indigenous Services Canada, however, will lead in the partnership with indigenous women's organizations and communities.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Certainly when I heard about this, and with Health Canada taking the lead, what I would have anticipated.... We were hearing some stories mostly focused in Saskatchewan. Have you done an analysis of the CIHI data of tubal ligations across the country, and if so, can you table that with this committee? Were there any anomalies identified?

3:55 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health

Abby Hoffman

I'm certainly happy to get that data and table it. I can't say that any examination of it, that I'm aware of, would have suggested from the data that there were anomalies.

I think—and I'm not saying this at all to diminish the significance of this issue—that if one looked at the total number of sterilizations across the country through a procedure as definitive as tubal ligation, the proportion of procedures that one might suspect were imposed on the patients would be very small. I don't want to prejudge what the statistics will show, but I'm not certain at this point that one will see a pattern in Saskatchewan—you referenced Saskatchewan—that would be unusual. I don't want to prejudge that situation.

The other thing I would say is that methods of contraception do vary across the country. But we will get that data for you.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

So you don't know if any analysis has been done to date?

3:55 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health

Abby Hoffman

I do not.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

I think we all want to try to understand the scope of the issue. We know it's much broader than we thought, but I think understanding its scope and using the tools that we have to see if there are any outliers among the provinces could provide some opportunities.

The next piece I want to talk about—and I know that you're not legal experts—is a legal requirement for consent for medical procedures. Is the remedy for people only civil litigation? Is it a criminal offence in any province to perform a procedure without free, prior and informed consent? I don't know the answer to that question and I'm wondering if someone here knows the answer.

3:55 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health

Abby Hoffman

I can try, but again, I'm not really in a position to speak from an expert legal standpoint.

Certainly, if someone is subjected to a procedure where, arguably, what has happened is an assault, it's a little bit unclear in the health care context whether or not that is a criminal offence or whether that is a circumstance where someone could sue for some sort of damages or liability. Whether or not in a health care setting that sort of physical assault, that is to say, some unauthorized invasion of someone's physical being through a medical procedure, would be regarded as a criminal offence, I can't tell you.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

My next question is for Indigenous Services. There are people who have publicly come out as part of a suit. Have you offered support in any way to the people who are obviously having significant challenges from what's happened to them in their lives?

3:55 p.m.

Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Indigenous Services Canada

Valerie Gideon

In terms of direct outreach to the individuals who are right now in the process of the class action, we've not. We would have an interaction from counsel to counsel.

In terms of the ability of indigenous individuals to access support, we have a variety of mechanisms whereby first nations and Inuit in particular can access support through the non-insured health benefits program, which has mental health counselling available to individuals. We also have the Hope for Wellness line they can call to be referred for services. We have a variety of community-based programming that's also offered if they're living in a community.

It's something that counsel could offer to counsel. It's not something that we, as departmental representatives, would be able to to directly engage with them on.